iain Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 if you're going to edit your posts it makes it hard to reply w/o looking like a redundant a-hole Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 Never had a problem with it in those situations. It worked flawlessly. Bring a picket if you need to or dont believe it will work. Quote
Figger_Eight Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 Okay...these fuckers with their pinky fuckthings and all are a pain in the ass in applications where a regular ice axe would excel. If I was climbing something where I was spending most of my time at 60 degrees or steeper I'd take em both. But they would suck on a crevasse field. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 I'll kick your ass if you don't agree with me See note above about bringing a picket [ 10-23-2002, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ] Quote
Figger_Eight Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 yeah, yeah...blah, blah, blah. i ain't scared of you or your puppy - bring it Quote
Greg_W Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Figger Eight: i ain't scared of you or your puppy - bring it What are you saying? You hate his dog?? Quote
erik Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Greg W: quote:Originally posted by Figger Eight: i ain't scared of you or your puppy - bring it What are you saying? You hate his dog?? already gettin cold feet? Quote
David_Parker Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 It's pretty simple guys. You should have two sets of tools. One for alpine with a straight or mildly bent shaft with no pinky thingy and another set for water ice. Do your own thing with the water ice techno leashless pinky knob bullshit if you want, but just remember...ice climbing is more about your feet than the tools! Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 I dont agree with the two sets of tool hype. I use one set for everything. Quote
Highlander Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: I dont agree with the two sets of tool hype. I use one set for everything. me too, because thats all I can afford. Quote
TimL Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 I have 2 bent shaft Pulsars and they are awesome for everything I've done so far. Although I do have to say the Cobras are pretty nice. The new tools help make ice climbing easier to a degree, but as I painfully learned last year after breaking a couple fingers, technology doesn't replace technique. [ 10-23-2002, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: TimL ] Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Highlander: quote:Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: I dont agree with the two sets of tool hype. I use one set for everything. me too, because thats all I can afford. me three or one my "radically bent tools" worked on 55 degree alpine ice a few weekends ago flawlessly. Quote
Figger_Eight Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 Or you bring 1 tool with the pinky fuckthing and 1 straight shaft Rage, Black Prophet or whatever. You don't need two completely different sets of tools. Shit...regular ice axes don't climb mellow alpine ice that bad either. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Figger Eight: Or you bring 1 tool with the pinky fuckthing Quote
David_Parker Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 I guess I'm so old school I have about 8 different ice axes I can choose from 'cause I don't sell them when I get new ones. I keep them for friends or for just being able to choose depending on the climb. I pretty much save my cobra's for water ice and I love 'em. I thought I was cheating when I first started using them. For Alpine I have my old waterice tools: x-15 brs straight shaft with alaska picks. That's if I need 2 tools. I also have older original x-15 (blue fiberglass) One is a mutant that's 57.5 cm which works great with a classic pick. I have mini grivel for second tool where I know I might not really need it much. I understand the affordable thing, but the older tools that work for alpine should be pretty darn cheap second hand. Saves wear and tear on the expensive ones too and you won't be bummed if you accidently drop one down the mountain side. Also, I don't like switching picks and leashes around. What I like for alpine isn't the same for water ice. Just grab 'em and go! Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 You are old skool Also climb a lot better than me too Quote
mattp Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Figger Eight: Or you bring 1 tool with the pinky fuckthing and 1 straight shaft Rage, Black Prophet or whatever. You don't need two completely different sets of tools. Shit...regular ice axes don't climb mellow alpine ice that bad either. I think Eddie's got a good system here. I have a straight shafted SMC axe, one that most hot shot ice climbers would turn their noses up at, but one that actually penetrates real well and that removes OK on waterfalls or alpine applications. When I pair it with a curved pinkyfuckthing axe, I may have to make an extra placement when faced with a bulge or a mantle on a fully inserted shaft, but I can usually get the job done. Quote
Ade Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 Right you only really need one tool you can plunge most of the time and that can double as a third tool when on the steep stuff. quote: Broken picks = bad technique Like snoboy said we're talking a lot of picks here and in this case those doing the breaking (not my good self) actually have technique. Most people I know swear by the Aermet picks that BD no longer make and are less than impressed with the newer replacements. Quote
tomtom Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Figger Eight: Grivel makes a Top wing, Tech wing, Alp wing, and Light wing. This is the Light wing. I have a pair of Alp wings, which differ by having a rubber grip and a steel spike. I'm a beginner at ice climbing, and they work for me. The Tech wing and Top wing are more radically curved. Quote
jaee Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 I think there's a bit of confusion here. I know you can stick a radically bent tool when the angle of the slope is low. Duh. I disagree that on steeper snow/ic slopes you can "just bring a picket". I suppose if you only climb classic, fat ice in prime conditions with the occasional snow traverse, that ol' picket will do you well. However, if you've ever found yourself on 60° rime over ice and rocks where the only way upward progress can be made is to jam both shafts into the crap and yard yourself up on those, you might wish you could actually get your shafts into the slope. My question about the Quark ($146 at sportextreme, BTW) is related more to the plungeability than stickability. Does the pinky fuckstick™ seriously limit this ability? It sounds like the answer is mostly yes. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 Kick steps in the rime ice and use your picket instead of the tool if it's that bad. Walk up. I'm not advocating 2 sets of tools. If you think the pinkyfuckthing aint for you then don't buy the tools. It's that simple Or you can always use one of these trusty little fuckers. I hear 2nd bounce has a ton of em. I got one used from bug a while back. Used it twice already. [ 10-24-2002, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ] Quote
fishstick Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 Like a number of people who've contributed to this thread, I'm also pondering some new sticks this year. My tools work fine, but more shaft clearance would be nice. Cost is one of the big limiting factors of the potential upgrades. An unmentioned factor is the potential trend towards leashless climbing. Those pinky protectors on the Quark would seem to offer enough support for a few guys to climb 5+ "sans dragonnes" without resorting to the wierdness of the Ergo or the Scud. Late last winter there was an interesting e-mail debate based out of Canada, about the acceptability of leashless climbing. Among those who came out strongly in favour were Jack Roberts, Conrad Anker, Kim Csizmazia, Bruno Sourzac, Duncun Ferguson, Eric Dumerac and Sean Issac. The combined group has a pretty strong CV. I hope she doesn't mind, but I'm taking the privilege of quoting Csizmazia regarding the change: "I was around during the inception of leashless climbing. I resisted, as it was forced on me. Climbing only in North America for the last two seasons allowed me to stay in the hole. As great a hole as it is there is a whole new world out there. It is not changing. It has done gone and changed. Those of you who are reading this who have not witnessed it would not believe your eyes. Rest assured shit is different out there. More different than you will want to imagine. I know because I have had to struggle with my own resistence." Might be something to think about… GB, not climbing on leashless technoloy Quote
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