Jamin Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 Ok, so let's say that you are in the middle of a multi-pitch rappel and you rappel down to a ledge. Once you get to the ledge, you find out that there are absolutely no rappel anchors down there and nowhere to place pro. Therefore you cannot descend to the bottom of the mountain. Because you are solo climbing, you cannot climb back up to the top of the mountain and go down the easy route. You are stuck. Is there a lightweight way to place bolts so I can ensure that this situation does not happen. Quote
David Trippett Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 carry a brain. seriously though, don't get into such a situation. If you start relying on your equipment, you will. anyway, a hand drill and a light wall hammer may be your best bet if there's no gear. Quote
dmuja Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 Jamin, its called reading the guide book, gathering beta etc.. The very fact that you ask this question should set off the following thought process: I AM NOT EXPERIENCED ENOUGH TO RAPPEL UNKNOWN OR UNCLIMBED OR POSSIBLY BLANK TERRAIN. For instances, How many fist ascents do you have? Probably as many as me ("0"). You really should have some first ascents under your belt before you find yourself in the type of situation you describe (Why?, because you should only be in that situation as an FA'r). Otherwise, just read about the ascent AND descent route and plan accordingly. Descending the way you describe means you are on unknown or unclimbed terrain OR that you are about to fuck up someone elses previously done clean climb by placing unnecessary bolts. Unnecessary because you should have done your homework and bit off what you could chew rather than fucking up and then having to hack up the mountain/cliff. To sum up, leave the drill at home and take a couple few years to learn to climb trad. Quote
Jamin Posted August 31, 2007 Author Posted August 31, 2007 I may not have any first ascents, but I have been on a few climbs that don't have explicit intructions for rapelling. Sheesh, don't you want to go do some FA's sometime. Descending the way you describe means you are on unknown or unclimbed terrain Well, yeah. I guess that is generally the case. a hand drill and a light wall hammer may be your best bet if there's no gear. Do you know a cheap place to get this gear? I am a poor, starving college student. Quote
ClimbingPanther Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 Ok, so let's say that you are in the middle of a multi-pitch rappel and you rappel down to a ledge. Once you get to the ledge, you find out that there are absolutely no rappel anchors down there and nowhere to place pro. Therefore you cannot descend to the bottom of the mountain. Because you are solo climbing, you cannot climb back up to the top of the mountain and go down the easy route. You are stuck. Is there a lightweight way to place bolts so I can ensure that this situation does not happen. Honestly, where is this even possible? My gear-buying policy is to buy what I need when I need it. Don't have junk I don't use, and price pain is less if I "need" it. Wait til you go on a climb where you forsee this as a possible situation before you go out buying something ridiculous. Quote
Jamin Posted August 31, 2007 Author Posted August 31, 2007 Well, it sort of happened on my last climb, which has been climbed by about 11 people since the FA in 1963. Quote
dmuja Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 don't you want to go do some FA's sometime. Of coarse I do, and onsight FAing is the really the most honest/pure kind of climbing there is. But still though, to find myself in a situation as you describe would in my opinion be a major fuck up on my part. So why would I want to carry a drill around with me (looking like an idiot btw) while climbing/rapping on existing routes that maybe hundreds of other people climbed/rapped before me without that need? Maybe learn to do rope lead soloing first, carry prussik loops, and practice getting out of such a situations with clean pro first before you start drilling for no good reason. I bet there is NO existing rap route that anyone here can think of that matches your description, in fact there can't be. Which means you just need to do your homework and ask around to get the route info. Are you saying you plan on adding some rap anchors to existing routes? That would piss off a few people I think. On the other hand, if your going to put up FA's then you should already know the answer to your original question because you already have vast experience and multiple climbing techniques and tricks in your bag to solve such a problem. Quote
Off_White Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 carry prussik loops Bingo! Ever hear the old Chouinard quote, "If you carry bivy gear, you will bivy"? You can extrapolate it to, "If you carry a hammer and drill..." That gear will just be a bunch of extra weight you don't really need. If you don't find an anchor on the ledge you land on, look around, go back up, be creative. A nut tool to dig munge out of cracks and expose horns for slings will be much more useful than a hammer and drill. Push comes to shove, you can always leave gear, it's just money (and a little booty for someone else). There's certainly nothing on my rack I wouldn't happily part with for the sake of getting down safely. Tell us the story of that recent climb. Sounds like you did figure something out? Quote
kevbone Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 Ok, so let's say that you are in the middle of a multi-pitch rappel and you rappel down to a ledge. Once you get to the ledge, you find out that there are absolutely no rappel anchors down there and nowhere to place pro. Therefore you cannot descend to the bottom of the mountain. Because you are solo climbing, you cannot climb back up to the top of the mountain and go down the easy route. You are stuck. Is there a lightweight way to place bolts so I can ensure that this situation does not happen. Mmmmm.....did you just climb Infinate Bliss? Quote
kurthicks Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 jamin -- you don't have the knowledge and climbing experience to place bolts. period. I am glad to hear that you got down safely again though... often it is better to stop mid-rap and use natural features (or leave gear) to do a second rappel off of than to end up on a "featureless ledge" and not be able to continue your descent (short of prussiking back to a decent anchor). consider carrying two ropes so you can double the length of your rappel. just be safe out there. Quote
Jamin Posted August 31, 2007 Author Posted August 31, 2007 I solo climbed the Twin Imps (9030 feet)(5.1) in the Seven Devil Mountains. I was rappelling down from the climb, and I realized that I did not have enough rope to reach the bottom. At this point I was midway down the rappel, and 4 offtrail miles away from civilization. The face in front of me had not place to put any pro. I locked down the rappel and climbed back up to the ridge with a couple 5.8 moves. I had some prusik material in my pack, but it would have been difficult to get. That peak has been climbed by about 11 people since 1963, and it is not in any guidebook. Is there a place to get an inexpensive drill kit somewhere that I can hang off my harness. I sort of want to be able to rappel anything and not to have to choose my descent routes. In this case, the descent route was not specified dmuja, and I didn't see any rappel anchors. Quote
ClimbingPanther Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 I sort of want to be able to rappel anything and not to have to choose my descent routes. oh, that wasn't a joke... Quote
Jamin Posted August 31, 2007 Author Posted August 31, 2007 By the way, I have no problem with rapping off a stopper if neccesary Quote
counterfeitfake Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 You mean this climb? The one with the descent beta available on the internet? The one where you downclimb the route? So: you start rapping down a bad rap route and have to place a bolt. Then you keep rapping down this bad rap route. Do the math. How many bolts are you going to bring? I had some prusik material in my pack, but it would have been difficult to get. It shouldn't be in your pack. Two prusiks should be on your harness. At all times. I sort of want to be able to rappel anything and not to have to choose my descent routes. I can't figure out whether you're an idiot or a very very good troll, but this quote points me toward the latter... Quote
rob Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 Is there a place to get an inexpensive drill kit somewhere that I can hang off my harness. I sort of want to be able to rappel anything and not to have to choose my descent routes. I wish this was a troll. Quote
lizard_brain Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 "I had some prusik material in my pack, but it would have been difficult to get." "Is there a place to get an inexpensive drill kit somewhere that I can hang off my harness." These are both gems. Um, how about this - hang your prussic loops on your harness? No - that's too easy... :lmao: /Taking bets on whether this guy knows how to prussic, and has ever tried... Quote
counterfeitfake Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 Is there a lightweight way to place bolts so I can ensure that this situation does not happen. No. No such thing exists. Bolt kits are all very heavy and cumbersome. You should find another way to descend. Quote
kurthicks Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 I wish this was a troll. Jamin (hanging) in the blue jacket. not a troll, very excited about climbing...but in need of more experience and judgement... Quote
counterfeitfake Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 I wish this was a troll. Jamin (hanging) in the blue jacket. not a troll, very excited about climbing...but in need of more experience and judgement... I would say that just because you've met him IRL does not mean he's not trolling. In fact he might be trolling in person too. Quote
Peter_Puget Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 Bolt kits are all very heavy and cumbersome. This is simply untrue. A hand drill, bit and several 1/4" bolts w/ hangers will weight less than a hammer. Quote
counterfeitfake Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 Bolt kits are all very heavy and cumbersome. This is simply untrue. A hand drill, bit and several 1/4" bolts w/ hangers will weight less than a hammer. I knew some anal-retentive hyper-accurate nerd was going to chime in here and ruin it. I just figured it was going to be CBS. Quote
Jamin Posted August 31, 2007 Author Posted August 31, 2007 Taking bets on whether this guy knows how to prussic, and has ever tried... I jumped in a crevasse on Rainier this May. I prussiked out just fine. http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=20&Number=634836&Searchpage=4&Main=47948&Words=Jamin&topic=0&Search=true#Post634836 So any recommendations on where to get a light hand drill. Quote
counterfeitfake Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 So any recommendations on where to get a light hand drill. The problem is that you suck at descending. Having a drill won't fix this. Just get better at it. Quote
mattp Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 The drill you want is the Petzl Rock Pecker but there is something to some of the comments above about whether you should feel you actually need one. I've been cragging and climbing walls and mountains all over the place for 35 years and the only time I've ever carried a drill is when I actively set out to develop a new line. Unless you are doing that, or are in the habit of rapping down unknown steep walls - something that is pretty much always avoidable - you don't need the drill. Quote
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