sk Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 Climbing is as close as I get to practing any type of religion. god made so many amazingly beautiful places on this planet. I think he/she gets pissed off when people sit inside some building to thank him/her i prefer to say my thankfuls outside. climbing hiking doesn't matter as long as it is outside. i think i may try some horse back riding... i think that might do it too Quote
kevbone Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I feel close to God when I am about to die. Like... two feet above a bolt? More like when the bolt is at my waist. ! Quote
Bug Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I worked with the Blackfeet traditionalists for a little while. We were trying (successfully) to keep the Forest Service from opening up a Blackfeet sacred area (mountainous) to oil and gas development. Their views on things mountainous and/or spiritual are quite different from our western way of percieving our world. Science is a great thing but to set it in opposition to religion or spirituality is as ignorant as setting religion or spirituality in oposition to science. Our society is based onthe Judeo/Christian Bible. Like it or not, if you were to get into a political or social discussion with someone from another culture, they would recognize you as Christian and American right away. We are so shallow as a people. We are so self centered and arrogant. We have more power than most peoples and act as though that gives us the right to use it in other countries and other cultures. Disaster lurks around the corner for the US. Our policies of late make the likelyhood of another terrorist strike on our soil MORE likely. We breed contempt amoungst the largest populace on earth, Islam. This says nothing about the good works accomplished by the armed forces. They are following orders and working for the best possible outcome. But my words would infuriate the likes of Rudolf Guliani or Rumsfield etc. Climb on. But keep looking over your shoulder. This is not over. Quote
XXX Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I worked with the Blackfeet traditionalists for a little while. We were trying (successfully) to keep the Forest Service from opening up a Blackfeet sacred area (mountainous) to oil and gas development. Their views on things mountainous and/or spiritual are quite different from our western way of percieving our world. Science is a great thing but to set it in opposition to religion or spirituality is as ignorant as setting religion or spirituality in oposition to science. Our society is based onthe Judeo/Christian Bible. Like it or not, if you were to get into a political or social discussion with someone from another culture, they would recognize you as Christian and American right away. We are so shallow as a people. We are so self centered and arrogant. We have more power than most peoples and act as though that gives us the right to use it in other countries and other cultures. Disaster lurks around the corner for the US. Our policies of late make the likelyhood of another terrorist strike on our soil MORE likely. We breed contempt amoungst the largest populace on earth, Islam. This says nothing about the good works accomplished by the armed forces. They are following orders and working for the best possible outcome. But my words would infuriate the likes of Rudolf Guliani or Rumsfield etc. Climb on. But keep looking over your shoulder. This is not over. This is probably one of the more intelligent things I have read on this board lately. Excellent points. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I worked with the Blackfeet traditionalists for a little while. We were trying (successfully) to keep the Forest Service from opening up a Blackfeet sacred area (mountainous) to oil and gas development. Their views on things mountainous and/or spiritual are quite different from our western way of percieving our world. Science is a great thing but to set it in opposition to religion or spirituality is as ignorant as setting religion or spirituality in oposition to science. Our society is based onthe Judeo/Christian Bible. Like it or not, if you were to get into a political or social discussion with someone from another culture, they would recognize you as Christian and American right away. We are so shallow as a people. We are so self centered and arrogant. We have more power than most peoples and act as though that gives us the right to use it in other countries and other cultures. Disaster lurks around the corner for the US. Our policies of late make the likelyhood of another terrorist strike on our soil MORE likely. We breed contempt amoungst the largest populace on earth, Islam. This says nothing about the good works accomplished by the armed forces. They are following orders and working for the best possible outcome. But my words would infuriate the likes of Rudolf Guliani or Rumsfield etc. Climb on. But keep looking over your shoulder. This is not over. This is probably one of the more intelligent things I have read on this board lately. Excellent points. The first half is... then it deteriorates into the same tiresome cliches and hand-wringing. Quote
i_like_sun Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 After climbing a billion peaks the luster of just being up there kind of wears off. I would disagree. For me it never gets old. I've haven't quite climbed "a billion" peaks, but I've done one or two, and every time I get up there (no matter what the weather) I am always always taken back by the closeness and power of death. I might be more of a hippy than most, but the simplicity of a fire-filled sunset at home puts me into a state of utter respect for this universe. I mean seriously, when you stare at that sunset you have to realize that the light you are looking at was created 93 million miles away, eight minutes ago, and by massive thermonuclear reactions in a ball of gas the size of a million earths! How could the wonder of that power and beauty EVER wear off? I personally believe religion is for the weak of mind. Living in the unknown is the path to fulfillment. I wonder what Jesus would say? Quote
setnei Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 moses was a mountaineer. polypro and shorts on under his robes. Quote
JayB Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I like Bug, but disagree with the majority of the statements included in the post, starting with the following: "Their views on things mountainous and/or spiritual are quite different from our western way of percieving our world. Science is a great thing but to set it in opposition to religion or spirituality is as ignorant as setting religion or spirituality in oposition to science." If religion makes statements that are demonstrably false, attempts to influence anything that falls outside the proper bounds of its authority on the basis of such claims, etc - then science and religion are in direct conflict and pretending otherwise seems immeasurably more foolish to me. If your Church doctrine states that the world is 6000 years old, or that your ancestors materialized out of the mud in the midst of the lands that your tribe currently occupies, or that HIV is caused by demonic possession - then the moment that your religion/spirituality/whatever enters the realm of public debate, or attempts to influence public policy, then at that point it's claims enjoy no special exemption from analysis or scrutiny, and any state of affairs in which they do enjoy such exemptions is one that any reasonable person - religious or not - should dread. Quote
rob Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 There's also black flies. Does that make you Lord of the Flies? Wow, you're fucking funny. Did you think of that all on your own? Quote
Bug Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I like Bug, but disagree with the majority of the statements included in the post, starting with the following: "Their views on things mountainous and/or spiritual are quite different from our western way of percieving our world. Science is a great thing but to set it in opposition to religion or spirituality is as ignorant as setting religion or spirituality in oposition to science." If religion makes statements that are demonstrably false, attempts to influence anything that falls outside the proper bounds of its authority on the basis of such claims, etc - then science and religion are in direct conflict and pretending otherwise seems immeasurably more foolish to me. If your Church doctrine states that the world is 6000 years old, or that your ancestors materialized out of the mud in the midst of the lands that your tribe currently occupies, or that HIV is caused by demonic possession - then the moment that your religion/spirituality/whatever enters the realm of public debate, or attempts to influence public policy, then at that point it's claims enjoy no special exemption from analysis or scrutiny, and any state of affairs in which they do enjoy such exemptions not one that any reasonable person - religious or not - should dread. I agree completely. The religions of oral societies were what anthropology calls "fluid". When our mythology was written down it was frozen or no longer fluid. "Oral fluidity" is what allowed the Shamans or holy people of oral societies to change their mythologies in order to meet the new or percieved new threats to their world and cosmology. With the introduction of literacy, this process was encumbered greatly and then even used as a tool for social manipulations. The religions "of the book" are far more prone to fundamentalist persuits and misinterpretations. If taken in their historical context, our books, Old and New Testament, are an incredible source of human wisdom. They who claim to know the exact interpretation of any passage is worthy of suspicion in my opinion. I have read the OT in ancient Hebrew and it comes out very different than the King James version. At least in my mind it does. Due to the multiple modes of conjugation and inflextion, any given chapter may have several legitimate applications in a given circumstnce. This is a throwback to oral fluidity and its reflection in the language of the time. There is a great book that all westerners should read called Boundaries. It is a modern phycological work on relationships and healthy interactions that uses the latest applied and academic phsycology and sites passages in the OT an NT as examples of the concepts. In this way it demonstrates to believers and non-believers (if they can get past the religious origin of the text) that the wisdom of human nature is stored in our mythology. Applying this stuff to astronomy or chemistry or something like that would be a mis-application in my opinion. I am very suspicious of organized religion even though I believe that our responsibilities to each other require our participation. I seek out the less structured and the congregation centered as apposed to the leader centric model. By the way, if anyone feels that their opinion is better expressed via flaming, feel free. Just try to make a point. Quote
Bug Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 To sum it up, I believe there is a God and He/She wants us to be ourselves as long as that includes respecting others. Beyond that, there is much confusion and room for debate. Quote
ericb Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 To me, the spiritual value of climbing lies not only in where it is (God's Creation) but where it isn't. While few can justify the monastic life, I think solitude is an important spiritual discipline, and one which Jesus practiced regularly. I think it's easier to listen for direction absent all the background noise of our everyday life, but I also think that the American lifestyle is extremely toxic. There is rampant busy-ness and materialism, greed, envy, etc., and if we are immersed in it regularly, I think it slowly poisons us without us even realizing it. I was recently reading a book on spiritual disciplines - specifically a chapter on the practice of solitude, and the author uses the analogy of a frog in a pot of water. If you throw it into a pot of hot water, it will jump out, but if you put it in while the water is cold, and slowly heat it up, it will boil to death. Quote
Bug Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 I like climbing because it gets me outside and breathing. My favorite moments are when I am pushing my limits and get to that point where thinking about it only clouds the process. I simply move through the climb as a body without emotion or abstract thought. I suspect it is similar to the Zen state but I do not claim to be an expert in Zen. I am an expert at having fun however and more often than not, this includes mountains. I like great views but climb to be climbing not to get to the top as a goal. Certainly there is satisfaction at completing a climb but for me there is also a certain remorse at having ended the adventure. Unless the descent is technical or a massive storm is threatening to kill me. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 There's also black flies. Does that make you Lord of the Flies? Wow, you're fucking funny. Did you think of that all on your own? You can mock religion and its practitioners, and I can mock you, dickhead. Can't take what you dish out. Tough shit. Quote
Cairns Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Climbing is as close as I get to practing any type of religion. I worship sun. Religion proscribes dance so must climb instead. Climbing is as far as I can get from religion. Thank you for allow Puritan to post. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Jesus Christ, I loves me some mountains! Amen. Quote
rob Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 (edited) You can mock religion and its practitioners, and I can mock you, dickhead. Can't take what you dish out. Tough shit. My post was not mocking religion and its practitioners, at all. You must have misunderstood me. Which is not surprising, since you seem to have a hard time understanding much of anything. Edited August 29, 2007 by robmcdan Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 My post was not mocking religion and its practitioners, at all. yes, it was. Quote
joblo7 Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 a man brings who HE is to the mountain. an ambitious man, a spiritual man, a sleeping man, they will return to their life a little kinder more humble inspired. Quote
joblo7 Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 CLIMBING IS A GREAT METAPHOR FOR THE ARDOUS, DANGEROUS INNER-CLIMB. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 CLIMBING IS A GREAT METAPHOR FOR THE ARDOUS, DANGEROUS INNER-CLIMB. See what you've caused, KKK? Now STFU. Quote
joblo7 Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 sorry i could not contribute sooner , i was busy working on my spirituality. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 a man brings who HE is to the mountain. an ambitious man, a spiritual man, a sleeping man, they will return to their life a little kinder more humble inspired. you gotta lay off that gange Quote
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