improving plastic boot perfomance on ice?

[genepires]

was wondering if intuition liners (or garmont thermo liners) would make better ice climbing boots out of my plastics. I have always used leathers for ice climbing because they kept my heal locked in better than plastics. No matter how tight I lace them, plastics just don't work for me. I suspect that I have low foot volume which makes it hard for plastics to mold down far enough onto the foot. Anyone have positive or negative experience with these intuition liners for ice climbing instead of just mountaineering or BC skiing?

 

any other ideas?

 

thanks in advance for reasonable responces.

 

gene

 

[mattp]

Gene -

 

I bet you could custom fit the liners to your advantage. Take blue foam, and cut it into a collar, maybe roughly in an "x" shape, to wrap around rhe rear of your foot and extend above and below your anlke bones protruding from the upper side of your foot. Cut it so it is contoured to fit, and experiment with temporary tape jobs to get it just right.

 

Take it for a test ride before gluing or using any semi-permanent tape. Barge cement works well to glue it in place once you get it all tweaked and, when I had it refined just right, I've used ripstop repair tape to sealed it in and make the surface slippery so the liner slipped on and off without risking pulling the padding off. I've done this and eliminated prior problems stemming from a heel lifting in both ski boots and plastic climbing boots, solving blister issues and improving performance.

[pup_on_the_mountain]

I'm interested in this question as well! Thanks for your suggestion Matt, but, I'm not able to picture your setting. If I guessed correctly, you put the padding (or 'x' collar) between the liner and the plastic boot, and glue it to the (inside of the) plastic boot. Is this correct? If yes, then do you "style" the padding with your liners on, or on your bare foot?

 

[mattp]

I've seen it recommended to put the custom fitting on the inside of the plastic shell, but I've put it on the inside of the liner and obtained excellent results. I would think you'd strip it off the shells when cramming your bootie into them, and it would also seem that the careful fit would be complicated by the padding of the liner. So, answering your question, you "style" the padding with the liner and shell on.

 

I learned this trick from a professional custom boot fitter. He did an excellent job, but I thought I could probably duplicate his efforts. In fact it wasn't hard.

 

I should still give credit where credit is due, however: Jim Mates, in Seattle. He didn't use the "lazy x" that I describe, but he encouraged me to experiment with custom fitting. He also showed me that you can also heat up the shell and push it out to accomodate a larger heel, or a bunion or whatever... When I had plantar faciitis, he produced a pair of orthodics that fixed the foot problem as effectively as any foot doctor could.

 

My take away message was that you should not feel shy about making a pair of boots "your own." If they are causing blisters or allowing your heel to lift and compromising performance, there IS something you can do about it.

[pup_on_the_mountain]

Makes more sense now. So, while you make the liner fit your feet better, you're also sort of pushing your liner out, such that it fits more tightly in the boot, right?

 

In my case, the liner fits my feet well, and hence I'd hate to alter that fit. At the same time, the whole liner some times slips out of the boot at the heal, especially when I front point. I guess Gene also has a similar issue - just as he says, lacing the outer boot tight does not seem to help much. What I'm looking for is a set-up that will make the liner stick to the boot better, thus keeping it in position. May be I'll experiment with some sort of "padding" between the liner and the boot...

[DPS]

I put Intuition liners in my Scarpa Invernos after the stock liners packed out. They actually are sloppier now than before.

[mwalker]

i had the same problem - liner slipping out of the plastic shell - last winter with my koflachs. did you ever have any luck fixing this problem?

[akicebum]

Intuition is the only way to go. The only problem you may discover is mentioned above. You will probably need a half size smaller boot. Intuition is lighter, warmer, and doesn't absorb moisture the way most stock boot liners do. Remember you get what you pay for and La Sportiva makes some very good expedition boots. Good luck.

[Don_Serl]

gene,

 

i don't think you'll get anywhere near as 'snug' a fit with any plastic boot/liner combo as with leather. the basic problem is that the plastic shell is too stiff to transmit the necessary lacing pressure through to 'drive' your heel back into its pocket. however, i do have some experience with a little device that helped with Intuitions in my Scarpas Vegas. the device is basically a Uretek (rubberized fabric) cone with the top removed. this forms a bevelled 'ring' that fit around your heel: under it, up both sides, and across the Achilles tendon area. the ring is constructed of two parts, sewn together, on the ones I have. sewn to opposite sides of this 'ring' are two pieces of Velcro, hook one side, loop the other. you fit the ring around the heel of the liner, tug it pretty hard into place, and slap the Velcros together. presto, you've just 'driven' your heel deep into the heel pocket of the liner, and you've pretty much immobilized it relative to the liner. movement of the liners themselves inside the shells can still be somewhat troublesome, depending on fit.

 

i got these devices years ago at a downhill ski shop - i have no idea whether they are still available commercially. you could probably get a cobbler to sew something up once you'd settled on the pattern/dimensions.

 

btw, I thought intuitions were a big step forward in warmth and lightness (excellent for Kluane, for instance), but they do pack out, and without these 'devices' I never found any way to keep them from slipping around in the shells. overtightening the laces on the outers just leads to foot fatigue and coldness.

 

good luck,

cheers,

 

 

[Don_Serl]

...dug out the 'heel-grabbers' - they were made by Da Kine - sewn in Hood River Oregon, matter of fact. actually, they are half rubber, half Uretek. nice...

cheers,

[G-spotter]

Stealing a powerstrap off your ski boots is claimed to work wonders.

[mwalker]

hey Dru can you elaborate on the powerstrap setup. i'm imagining something like this. is that correct?

 

[G-spotter]

nope i think you just put it on like a regular powerstrap, around the top of the cuff. Beckey has them on his plastics for ice climbing.

[Bug]

Duct tape.

[Bug]

I have used various neoprene articles to pad my boots too. For instance, I bought a wetsuit top at a garage sale and cut sections of the arm off so I could pull them over my foot and then remove padding where it wasn't needed. But Matt's technique is far better. Mine is just simple and quick.