Deadly Force Questions for Legal Experts/Cops

[Cobra_Commander]

You can always throw turds.

[archenemy]

Basic weapons class?? That was ages 10-15, when I stopped hunting. I want a gun to kill the M.F. in my living room.

Oh, I beg your pardon. Obviously I meant to say Anger Management Class.

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Basic weapons class?? That was ages 10-15, when I stopped hunting. I want a gun to kill the M.F. in my living room.

Oh, I beg your pardon. Obviously I meant to say Anger Management Class.

 

[Choada_Boy]

You would not be angry to wake up and find someone in your living room? You would not perceive them as a threat and seek to remove that threat?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

You would not be angry to wake up and find someone in your living room? You would not perceive them as a threat and seek to remove that threat?

 

I thought you saw these guys beat up your friend on the street, not find them in your living room.

 

 

[archenemy]

You would not be angry to wake up and find someone in your living room? You would not perceive them as a threat and seek to remove that threat?

I have killed my fair share of living things and I can honestly say that no, I would not kill a person for breaking into my home. If they came at me, then yes, I would shoot them. But you, my boy, are freaking out. When you calm down, you may adjust your thinking a little bit.

[Choada_Boy]

Sorry, thought experiment tangent. I don't have anger management issues it takes quite a bit to get me authentically pissed of such as waking me up at 2am beating the shit out of my neighbor.

[archenemy]

If you are willing to shoot someone at 2am for beating up your neighbor, you have issues.

[Choada_Boy]

You are entitled to your incorrect opinion. Bitch stomping someone , IMHO, forfeits your privilidge to live.

Edited July 26, 2007 by Choada_Boy

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Sorry, thought experiment tangent. I don't have anger management issues it takes quite a bit to get me authentically pissed of such as waking me up at 2am beating the shit out of my neighbor.

 

I assume you called the cops immediately (which I would have done).

 

The other thing is to yell out your window and inform said attackers that you had called the cops. Afraid of a repraisal? Yell from somewhere ambiguous.

 

I've done this before. I saw some teenage kids bullying a girl off the school bus that let off in front of my apartment building. They threatened to kick my ass, and I just yelled all the louder until they got scared and ran off.

 

[Choada_Boy]

I called the cops and yelled "cops are on the way, M.F.s" But the dude go a stiff beating after that for another minute or so while I ran to get my glasses. By the time I got outside they had taken off.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I called the cops and yelled "cops are on the way, M.F.s" But the dude go a stiff beating after that for another minute or so while I ran to get my glasses. By the time I got outside they had taken off.

 

Sounds like you did about as much as you could.

[John Frieh]

[]

 

S.P.E.A.R. comes highly recommended

 

Might want to get some Lasik too

[archenemy]

No shit, that's what I was thinking! Someone he can't see in the middle of his room in the dark. Fuck it, open fire!

[archenemy]

You are entitled to your incorrect opinion. Bitch stomping someone , IMHO, forfeits your privilidge to live.

Okay, so when I was in your situation and seeing a kid get stomped in the head, I remember also being very upset. It is troubling to see. Worse yet, the stomper was Tjayden, a skinhead who ruled the school in a reign of terror and was very hansome. My boyfriend at the time said we had to get out of there (it was at a party and we were doing some unsavory things, so we didn't want to be there when the cops came). I said no, we gotta get the guy. We argued about it a bit and then heard sirens. The skinhead troupe ran off, as did everyone else. I made my bf help me pick up the stompee and throw him in the back of the truck. His head was fucked up and swollen, and he'd been stabbed in the knee and was bleeding all over me. He was so disoriented he thought the blood was mine. I told my bf we'd bring him down the street to the Fire Dept and dump him off. And so we did. I never had to pull a gun on anyone.

About a year later, by bf and I ran into the guy. He said thanks--and he looked good as new.

And nobody got shot.

Nobody forfeited their right to live (which, by the way, you don't get to decide b/c last time I checked, you weren't God).

And nobody got shot.

 

So get a grip already you Seattle pussy.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

You are entitled to your incorrect opinion. Bitch stomping someone , IMHO, forfeits your privilidge to live.

Okay, so when I was in your situation and seeing a kid get stomped in the head, I remember also being very upset. It is troubling to see. Worse yet, the stomper was Tjayden, a skinhead who ruled the school in a reign of terror and was very hansome. My boyfriend at the time said we had to get out of there (it was at a party and we were doing some unsavory things, so we didn't want to be there when the cops came). I said no, we gotta get the guy. We argued about it a bit and then heard sirens. The skinhead troupe ran off, as did everyone else. I made my bf help me pick up the stompee and throw him in the back of the truck. His head was fucked up and swollen, and he'd been stabbed in the knee and was bleeding all over me. He was so disoriented he thought the blood was mine. I told my bf we'd bring him down the street to the Fire Dept and dump him off. And so we did. I never had to pull a gun on anyone.

About a year later, by bf and I ran into the guy. He said thanks--and he looked good as new.

And nobody got shot.

Nobody forfeited their right to live (which, by the way, you don't get to decide b/c last time I checked, you weren't God).

And nobody got shot.

 

So get a grip already you Seattle pussy.

 

If I thought the guy getting stomped was in actual danger of being maimed or killed, and I had a gone I'd shoot - but try to knock them off their feet, not kill.

 

[Stefan]

self defense can only be used if it is "like for like".

 

For example if someone comes into your house, and you know they have nothing, you cant just shoot to kill becuase you are angry.

 

If someone comes after you with their fists, then you can hit them back.

 

If you feel your life is in danger, then yes, killing is acceptable.

 

Like for like with reasonableness. That is the law.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

self defense can only be used if it is "like for like".

 

For example if someone comes into your house, and you know they have nothing, you cant just shoot to kill becuase you are angry.

 

If someone comes after you with their fists, then you can hit them back.

 

If you feel your life is in danger, then yes, killing is acceptable.

 

Like for like with reasonableness. That is the law.

 

I did a little google searching and apparently you can use deadly force if someone is in danger of being *maimed*. That's not like for like. Also, if there is a large discrepancy in force (like a 250 lb guy beating the crap out of an old lady), deadly force can be justified.

 

but I ain't no lawyer (thank God).

 

[high_on_rock]

Remember this is all a jury issue, and they will hopefully look at the various facts and weigh those facts. How many were there, what were their actions, did they threaten you, were they armed, were they in the house, in the bedroom, in the yard? The jury will probably look at whether you had an opportunity to escape rather than stand and fight (not always). Are you capable of physically defending yourself (Sherri) or are you some tiny pussy who cowers at violence (me). How you respond and answer questions later will make a big difference: “ I was afraid for my life” verses “they forfeited their right to live by being here.” One may get you a self defense acquittal, the other will get you a cell with an unwanted new buddy. Much of it will also go to whether you are lucky enough to get a good jury, what other stories are floating around the newspapers at the time, and how good you look in court. Who did you draw as a prosecutor, someone aggressive and talented, or someone who is there for a paycheck. Anytime you submit your future to a jury, anything can happen.

 

Much like rock climbing, the advice is to evaluate how much risk you want to assume. If you like a safe risk-free life, run away quickly. If you like to take huge risks, shoot the bastards and talk to an attorney quickly to determine how and if to answer any questions.

 

[lizard_brain]

I've heard that Oregon has recently lightened up it's deadly force laws. Fewer questions asked when killing home intruders.

[Choada_Boy]

Bas Rutten would say that anything goes in a street fight. Should that include beating an assailant with a hammer?

 

Pretty sad that I'd think I'd need my glasses to brawl, it's amazing how weird your thought processes can get in high adrenaline moments at 2am. The dude said "Escape" as the type of car, and I added an "R" and told the cop "Pacer"

 

Regardless, I'm most certainly no Seattle Pussy, but I'm getting to the point in life where I'm fed up with the societal response to this type of shit. Wrist-slapping makes people think that it's no big deal. If you and your bro want to stomp a dude like cowards, you deserve to die, or, better yet, have your hands sawed off.

[archenemy]

Bas Rutten would say that anything goes in a street fight. Should that include beating an assailant with a hammer?

 

Pretty sad that I'd think I'd need my glasses to brawl, it's amazing how weird your thought processes can get in high adrenaline moments at 2am. The dude said "Escape" as the type of car, and I added an "R" and told the cop "Pacer"

 

Regardless, I'm most certainly no Seattle Pussy, but I'm getting to the point in life where I'm fed up with the societal response to this type of shit. Wrist-slapping makes people think that it's no big deal. If you and your bro want to stomp a dude like cowards, you deserve to die, or, better yet, have your hands sawed off.

Reread your first paragraph. Your head got so fucked up you couldn't speak correctly. Yet, you think you would be able to make the right decision with a gun in your hands?

Societal response? Didn't you just read about OR loosening it's laws? Or do you mean our responses here? Especially responses that come from those of us who actually own guns and the right to carry them concealed? Who the fuck do you think you are? Oh yeah, that's right, you are God--the one who gets to decide who lives and who dies in the octagon of life. Grow up.

[JayB]

Sort of OT - but there was a case in New Hampshire a few months ago that's somewhat germaine to the topic.

 

Evidently there was some bad blood between a local cop and one of Bode Miller's cousins that had been going on for a while. Cop sees BMC speeding (I think), pulls over BMC, BMC says call another cop when he sees that it's the cop that he's got the bad blood with and drives off. Cop in question pursues BMC into lot where he's now stopped, rams BMC's car three times while BMC is showing hands. Cop then gets out, walks over to BMC's car and sprays mace on BMC through window, walks back to car, and BMC pulls out handgun and kills policemans with several shots to the back.

 

Ex-marine happens to drive by, sees shooting, exits vehicle, grabs policeman's service revolver, points it at BMC and tells him to drop the gun. BMC refuses and/or does nothing and ex-marine shoots BMC twice in the chest and kills him. No charges are filed against ex-marine.

[DavidHiers]

State law varies. In general, deadly force is authorized only if you are:

 

Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;

 

Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

 

Pay a few bucks and take the concealed carry class to get real deal.

 

[archenemy]

That makes sense. Not only was the Marine trained to use that weapon, he did so in an effort to protect someone in mortal danger (he didn't see the macing, right? And he doesn't know the history between the two men).

Great example of when it is understandable that someone use deadly force against a person he just saw shoot another person and then have that person threaten another life.