5 climbers missing on Hood

[dan_forester]

Ben hit REI the next morning to buy a proper GPS

 

a gps isn't going to keep your son from getting into trouble. a better investment would be a good compass and some time spent learning to use it.

 

hope he got the 20% off, though.

[dinomyte]

If he bought Garmin like me it was 25% off. The 20% coupons never apply to GPS! Ha!

[lizard_brain]

What's a GPS?

[ashw_justin]

These guys got themselves off the mountain on the same day. Good enough for me. Again, this isn't even newsworthy, but I guess that doesn't stop many of you from dropping your latent baggage from the infamous winter incident.

[ScaredSilly]

Then, many of these climbers have a GPS, which is essential for navigating in a whiteout. So what if you've only put a few South Side waypoints into the GPS? Not a big deal if you can locate yourself on a map in bad weather using your GPS. Make it easy - have the UTM on the map. That is another error people often make - having a GPS and map and not being able to use them together. The South Side makes a great place to practice with UTM and GPS and traveling in whiteouts - just plan to do it before you're forced to.

 

GPS - white out - essential?? Huh? Then how have so many in the past 100 years managed to get off the mtn. in a white out? WTF is that little thingy-a-bobber with a needle that points to the north called?

 

[ashw_justin]

I'll take a (properly used) GPS over a compass in a white out any day. What is this, the 15th century?

[J_Pointer]

Sounds like the acorn didn't fall far from the tree here.

 

JLP

[dinomyte]

I think what these folks are trying to say is the same as the old "calculator" argument.

 

It's fine to use a calculator to quickly multiply 236 by 341, just know how to do it without one!

 

A GPS can actually help, even if you know little about maps and compasses. But isn't it better to know both?

[catbirdseat]

I'll take a (properly used) GPS over a compass in a white out any day. What is this, the 15th century?

That's a false choice. You'd still want a compass, even if you do have a GPS. At least I would.

[lizard_brain]

I'll take a (properly used) GPS over a compass in a white out any day. What is this, the 15th century?

That's a false choice. You'd still want a compass, even if you do have a GPS. At least I would.

 

Right on.

 

:tup:

[ScaredSilly]

I think what these folks are trying to say is the same as the old "calculator" argument. It's fine to use a calculator to quickly multiply 236 by 341, just know how to do it without one! A GPS can actually help, even if you know little about maps and compasses. But isn't it better to know both?

 

Correct, but also do not overly rely on electronics. Like people, batteries go dead. The same goes for even a compass. They too can go tits up. Read the F*CKing maps, descriptions, etc ahead of time and commit it to memory. Take copies along on the climb. The total reliance of GPS is BS try using the thing on top your shoulders besides something to hold your ears a part.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2007 by ScaredSilly

[Couloir]

I immediately got cranky when this came on the news. Calling for a rescue because of a whiteout? Unexpected storm? Had a GPS and couldn't figure out how to use it? Unbelievable.

 

Anyone know these guys?:

 

Brian Anderson, 24, Portland

Ben Elkind, 22, Portland

Bryce Benge, 29, Lake Oswego

Jeremiah West, 28, Portland

Brian Weihs, 39, Hillsboro

 

Yup, I know some of these guys. One of them is my son, Ben Elkind. I have to admit they made some errors, and at the same time they made some good moves.

 

I'm pretty amazed at how quickly you guys on this forum act like pompous *sses (pardon my french). It's as if none of you guys have *ever* made a mistake in your lives ! And the comments you guys throw out on this forum end up splattered all over the 'net.

 

See http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2007/05/popular_online_climbing_forum.html

 

So, here's the story: They had (mostly) the right gear, but they failed to load a topo map in their GPS (lesson #1), and they failed to store their waypoints (lesson #2), they overestimated the abilities of their climbing buddies (lesson #3, or maybe *risk* #1), and they should have turned back sooner (they would have avoided the bad weather) (lesson #4).

 

They lost the trail to the summit, and retried a couple of times, and in the process over-stayed (GPS waypoints would have helped). On the way down they hit the storm. They knew where they were (GPS), but not where they needed to go. A phone call from PMR gave them a heading/coordinates, and they made it down.

 

PMR offered them two options: go to Illumination Saddle and wait a couple of hours for the snow cat to arrive, or hunker down for the night in a snow cave. The climbing party correctly decided to hike down rather than risk the overnight stay or a couple of hours of exposure in bad weather waiting for a snow cat.

 

As you might imagine, this was a "training" climb. Ben hit REI the next morning to buy a proper GPS, vowing that this lesson (waypoints and topo map saved in GPS are your friend) would not have to be re-learned.

 

All in all, they could have done better, and they could have done much worse.

 

And by the way, they also learned that Cingular cell phone works *much* better than Verizon on Mt. Hood. (i.e. if you only bring a Verizon cell phone on the climb, you haven't brought a cell phone at all).

 

- Bob Elkind (Ben's dad)

Thanks for posting Bob. Don't take it personally and I'm glad Ben, and everyone else is ok. I (as well as others) am still just sensitive from the December deal and then the subsequent Velvet-saga. Welcome to CC.

[lizard_brain]

I think what these folks are trying to say is the same as the old "calculator" argument. It's fine to use a calculator to quickly multiply 236 by 341, just know how to do it without one! A GPS can actually help, even if you know little about maps and compasses. But isn't it better to know both?

 

Correct, but also do not overly rely on electronics. Like people, batteries go dead. The same goes for even a compass. They too can go tits up. Read the F*CKing maps, descriptions, etc ahead of time and commit it to memory. Take copies along on the climb. The total reliance of GPS is BS.

 

 

No kidding. When I tell people at work that I climb without a GPS, they say "WHAT?", as though it's impossible to do so. Jesus Christ, I've been climbing with maps and compasses and altimiters all my life. Now a GPS is suddenly indispensible? I don't trust them because like SS and Dino said, batteries go dead, and all electronics can fail in one way or another. I just don't trust them. I have used them, but see them as entertaining novelties more than anything else. I'd rather save the weight and use the map and compass.

[ClimbingPanther]

I'm pretty amazed at how quickly you guys on this forum act like pompous *sses (pardon my french).

 

Every time a preventable incident makes the news, it unnecessarily propogates false perceptions about the danger of climbing or the risk-crazed thrill seekers who do it. It makes the whole climbing community look careless and selfish. This is why some nerves are clearly touched on this board.

[dinomyte]

Wow.....that's it exactly!!

 

[lizard_brain]

And I get SOOO F--ING PISSED OFF when I hear about someone getting lost, and BLAMING THEIR F--ING GPS!!! WHAT IN THE F--- KIND OF EXCUSE IS THAT!?!?! "I got lost because I had the wrong GPS." HUH?

 

[catbirdseat]

 

Correct, but also do not overly rely on electronics. Like people, batteries go dead. The same goes for even a compass. They too can go tits up. Read the F*CKing maps, descriptions, etc ahead of time and commit it to memory. Take copies along on the climb. The total reliance of GPS is BS try using the thing on top your shoulders besides something to hold your ears a part.

 

This is good advice. It pays to have a sort of mental map of the area you are in. By all means, bring the map with you, but it pays to have studied it in advance. If you have, chances are you'll never need to get it out.

[ScaredSilly]

Here is another one ... turn around once in a while on the trip in and note the terrian. Ya never know when the way in is also going to be the way out. Even remembering a few things like that funny rock formation or monster crack can give enough of a mental clue of where's Waldo.

 

[octavius]

Do people place wands anymore? A couple of friends and I did Baker last year on June 21st... midweek, nobody else around except for a group doing crevasse rescue practice low on the glacier; part of the reason nobody was around was the weather forecast showed some chance of cloudy weather. We took 75 wands (25 each, very light weight) and placed them every 55 meters on the Easton glacier... they thought it was overkill at first, but I talked them into it since we were all pretty new for this kind of trip. The trip up was clear as can be, but we came down in a partial whiteout. We were all glad we had the wands in place. We had maps, compasses, and GPS too, but for the trip down the wands were all we needed.

 

[lizard_brain]

This article says "Volunteers who helped rescue five men from Mount Hood over the weekend said the climbers were well-equipped, but ill-prepared to tackle whiteout conditions."

 

"These guys had the correct equipment — maps, compass, altimeter, cell phone, mountain locator unit," said rescuer Steve Rollins.

 

"But not all of them knew how to use the equipment, and the climbers were also unfamiliar with the mountain's geographic features, he said.

 

"The real problem here is people not appreciating the strength of storms on Mount Hood," Rollins said.

 

 

[sampdx]

Yes, but this could possibly cause more serious injuries or deaths because people might wait too long to ask for help.

[lbeam]

Rescuers are getting frusterated with reckless mistakes that climbers are making. This group, for instance, had all sorts of maps, a compass, a gps, and altimeter, but no one was knowledgeable on how to use these tools. Also it seemed that they weren't familiar with the surroundings. One guy didn't know where Yocum Ridge was. Instead of being self-sufficient, it seemed that this group took the easy way out and called for help instead of trying to get themselves out of trouble.

 

This group should have been working on their navigational skills on the South Side of the mountain that day instead of trying to attempt Leuthold Couloir.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2007 by lbeam

[Frikadeller]

(deleted because I am just a dickhead!!!)

Edited May 18, 2007 by Frikadeller

[ivan]

mount clown magnet

 

der tauntaunwand

[Rat_In_Training]

Posting a list of waypoints at the ranger station - sounds like a great idea.

 

JLP

 

While there is no ranger station at the south side of hood, there is the climber registration area known as "the cave". Many of you have seen the bullitin board there that has the avy conditons posted during the winter. I am a member of a search an rescue team, and at the most recent Mt. Hood Search and Rescue Council Meeting on monday, I made the suggestion that common waypoints be posted on that bullitin board as well

(credit for the suggestion went to CC.com). The forest service liked the idea, so I wouldn't be supprised if you see this happen in the next few weeks. I know its not the answer, and some people won't even notice, but thanks for the suggestion, maybe it will keep someone from calling for help. We do listen to what you guys say, and we appreciate any suggestions made.