Infinite Bliss

[tvashtarkatena]

Hair

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

pie

[kevbone]

 

The difference is some of us think that, despite the good intentions and hard work of many involved, that the ultimate resolution was unsatisfactory .

 

To you.

 

please stop tring to impose your will on me.

 

Hey, there's a good idea on Bill's part Kevin, how about you and I go do it on just gear sometime?

 

I dont know if it takes gear. but this summer when I go up to go it i will find out.

 

I am at a loss for words. This Dirty Hairy fella is stating he and others chopped this route. This is a huge hit to the climbing community. The selfishness it takes to do such a thing is beyond me. To all those involved with this, you have set a precedent that comes with no easy rest to say that from now on anyone gets to judge you and your routes, simply by their own reasoning. If I don’t like the color bolt or the kind of bolt or where or how you did anything, I or the next person gets to destroy it. This is not the kind of thinking that I would like my fellow climber to have. We all loose. Hope you’re happy.

Edited April 13, 2007 by kevbone

[tvashtarkatena]

Hair pie

[JosephH]

please stop tring to impose your will on me.

Nothing about my position on IB has anything to do with you. The folks who put IB up are the one's who did all the imposing.

 

I dont know if it takes gear. but this summer when I go up to go it i will find out.

The best way to find that out is to go up and do it or not, but only on gear.

 

This is a huge hit to the climbing community.

The huge hit on the climbing community happened when IB got put up. If someone has put the effort into removing it I would call that community service.

 

The selfishness it takes to do such a thing is beyond me. To all those involved with this, you have set a precedent that comes with no easy rest to say that from now on anyone gets to judge you and your routes, simply by their own reasoning.

This statement and the reasoning behind it is exactly what should be said to the guys who put IB up.

 

This is not the kind of thinking that I would like my fellow climber to have. We all loose. Hope you’re happy.

Again, that is exactly what happened in the wake of IB being put up - we all lost. It was and is a very public fiasco and complete embarrassment for the climbing community. Hope you're happy. The fact that you don't seem to want to be bothered to understand what makes this 'route' so controversial is half of the problem. You clearly see personal opportunity in it, where others of us see collective embarrassment.

[kevbone]

Jesus christ JH....please clarify how IB affects you?

Does it hurt you physically? Do you lie in bed and think about it? It was doing nobody any physical harm. The only harm it is doing is to your ego and mental psyche, which are not a good enough reason to chop it.

 

Which brings me to another question. Why exactly are you against it? Please don’t give me the old song and dance “im against all bolts”.

 

Edited April 13, 2007 by kevbone

[billcoe]

Chopping shows the worst part of climbing, shows how low you can go. Chopping is no better than graffiti with paint on the capital building. Fucking disgusting. If you don’t like the route….don ‘t climb it.

 

Well, I for one wanted to get on it and shouldn't have put it off. I don't feel like JH or RDawg. I suspect it's (was) a pretty good route.

 

But, Kev, anyone who feels they can toss a bolt in somewhere they have no ownership too should also be aware that the next person has as as much, or more, right to yank it right out for the same (and additional) reasons. For some, the "Graffti" is the bolts themselves and the cure is to remove em. Not climbing the route makes it no less of an affront to them.

 

JH, I was hoping the steep upper slabs still have bolts, if not, that could be real, real, spicy. To say nothing of the effects of not summiting and leaving a shitload of gear to get off. Does one bring a handdrill for that eventuality. Is putting in a handdrilled bolt to replace an origonal bolt a bad thing to you? Given how you feel about the bolts and all.... doing the lower part with gear will only get you to the upper bolted parts which you still find objectionable. I'm assuming that the first 5 pitches were the only ones affected.

 

I would not want to participate in pulling any bolts and climbing it on gear, but to climb the route and hope it is possible to find the origonal bolts on the difficult upper part.

 

It may not be possible - unfortunatly.

[billcoe]

What does "Hair Pie" (assuming I understand the translation) have to do with this?

[Raindawg]

Went up to goldmeyer a few days ago, and decided to check on the handiwork. i suppose it was inevitable that it would get chopped sooner or later.

 

raindawg, was it you?

 

Nope. Would have if I could have but I don't have the time.

Pulling bolts is only the first step...restoration should be part of the process and maybe it was.

[kevbone]

Nope. Would have if I could have but I don't have the time.

Pulling bolts is only the first step...restoration should be part of the process and maybe it was.

 

 

 

Would you care to explain that one? What damage exactly has been done?

 

Rain dog...your vision is small...you must think about others instead of only you. The world is bigger than is was 30 years ago. Things have changed. You need to learn to go with the flow.

Edited April 13, 2007 by kevbone

[StevenSeagal]

We did the route in just under 4hrs with 22 draws and simuled all but two pitches or three spots on the route.

 

Damn doood. What held you up? I did it in 3:30 with 21 draws and only pitched out one or two pitches.

 

Gaper.

 

Hahaha. I'm old, thats my excuse. 4hrs isnt that fast either, but if thats bragging and you go slower then haha on you! oh, and did I say 22 draws I meant 20 to beat your 21, hehe. You guys crack me up.

 

Naaah, doesn't matter how fast you do it. My wife and I would average about 30min a pitch and probably spend the entire day on the thing, but if you simul the hole thing 5 pitches literally turns into 20 minutes or so. Just imagine running up a steep slab with a bit of juggy steeper climbing in between. And like I said others have run the thing in about an hour and I don't think pitched anything out.

 

It's all good. The climb was fun. Not my normal foray but I do remember thinking it was kind of a cool spot to be in half way up this big slab of rock that you otherwise wouldn't bother getting on.

 

 

Not to brag or anything. But I did it in 3:17:51, and only 14 draws. We tried to see who could go for the biggest runouts. But then, with climbing so easy, it didn't really feel runout. But that's not important. What was important was the connection we felt with the rock, that, that....oneness with the stone, and nature. We were just so psyched to be there. A raven flew over us as we neared top and with it I felt my spirit soaring into the sky...I became that raven. Each rappel was like a pitcher full of life filling my soul with that chi of the stone and nature. Each bolt made me feel alive with wonder of how the drill of a stranger gave us so much. All of us.

 

 

[JosephH]

Bill, sounds like the hangers were pulled which I would consider a bit unfortunate. I'd say either remove the bolt and hanger or leave both. I very much dislike the whole idea of simply leaving studs almost as much as I do putting the route up in the first place. As raindawg suggests, they should finish the job. If I were to climb there I'd ignore all the existing stuff and just follow my own instinct and line. If that lapped either the original route or IB so be it, otherwise I'd either do it on gear alone or back off if I couldn't. Now the descent is something Kevin could claim is something you need to go look at to make a call one way or the other. Don't know from sitting here.

[StevenSeagal]

Oh, hey look. A bolting debate!

[JosephH]

What damage exactly has been done?

 

Rain dog...your vision is small...you must think about others instead of only you. The world is bigger than is was 30 years ago. Things have changed. You need to learn to go with the flow.

 

Your vision is non-existent if you can't recognize the damage done. The world isn't bigger than it was 30 years ago - it's just now overrun by bolt-only, risk-averse climbers with an insatiable consumer appetite and a commodity approach to climbing. They have no respect for the rock or wilderness and are self-interested in the extreme in that regard.

[Raindawg]

Hey... Look - the same post and people and spray as last year and the year before that...

 

Best part of this whole post is - go scrub index if you have energy to do something - IB is only controversial to a few people on this site and 99% of climbers in WA a) don't know about it b) have done it and don't have issues with it c) wonder why this always seems like a HUGE topic when it comes up in cc land.

 

You just made up that statistic.

 

seriously - this is so 2003 it's laughable and people get all foamy at the mouth to this day.

 

And it's so 2007 to sweep it under the rug or toss away deeply held ethics, eh?

 

the WCC has the best info on their site. Any post on IB is just going to waste 3 pages (wait - that's what we're here for right?) of posts.

 

They don't represent me nor a lot of other folks. They have their own agenda. Some of us, for example, don't consider the issues over this route "resolved" nor do we feel that "exercising restraint" on bolt-dependent (i.e. "sport") routes in the wilderness is enough.

 

Bottom Line: A very small # of people stir up a lot of stuff re: IB that was resolved over 3 years ago.

 

Again...it remains unresolved despite the opinion of the WCC.

 

 

 

[kevbone]

What damage exactly has been done?

 

Rain dog...your vision is small...you must think about others instead of only you. The world is bigger than is was 30 years ago. Things have changed. You need to learn to go with the flow.

 

Your vision is non-existent if you can't recognize the damage done. The world isn't bigger than it was 30 years ago - it's just now overrun by bolt-only, risk-averse climbers with an insatiable consumer appetite and a commodity approach to climbing. They have no respect for the rock or wilderness and are self-interested in the extreme in that regard.

 

 

What damage? Im am asking about physical damage? Not your ego.

 

If someone puts a route up and wants to bolt the shit out of it, its there prerogative. My suggestion (which I have stated from the beginning) is to not climb it. But don’t push your old school agenda on me.

 

Edited April 13, 2007 by kevbone

[StevenSeagal]

 

What damage? Im am asking about physical damage? Not your ego.

 

If someone puts a route up and wants to bolt the shit out of it, its there prerogative. My suggestion (which I have stated from the beginning) is to not climb it. But don’t push your old school agenda on me.

 

Hey! Get outta my way! I must bolt this and I will. ME FIRST!!!

[kevbone]

 

What damage? Im am asking about physical damage? Not your ego.

 

If someone puts a route up and wants to bolt the shit out of it, its there prerogative. My suggestion (which I have stated from the beginning) is to not climb it. But don’t push your old school agenda on me.

 

Hey! Get outta my way! I must bolt this and I will. ME FIRST!!!

 

As long as there not bolting a crack.....go for it.

[StevenSeagal]

 

What damage? Im am asking about physical damage? Not your ego.

 

If someone puts a route up and wants to bolt the shit out of it, its there prerogative. My suggestion (which I have stated from the beginning) is to not climb it. But don’t push your old school agenda on me.

 

Hey! Get outta my way! I must bolt this and I will. ME FIRST!!!

 

As long as there not bolting a crack.....go for it.

 

 

Yes! YES! By any means possible. Must get my name in lights! Can't climb it as nature made it? No PROBLEM, I have Hilti! Murder the impossible! Go for it! Shred it! Brah! Broham! I can climb anything now! And I will! Outta my way!

[StevenSeagal]

Hey look a bolting debate!

[StevenSeagal]

As long as there not bolting a crack.....go for it.

 

Wait a minute. Hold on. That crack is too hard and the pro sux. It's dangerous. I will bolt it now. I'm doing this on behalf of glorious climbing community. For you brahs. Now we can all climb it. It's our right. We deserve to climb this! I deserve it!

[kevbone]

Are you enjoying yourself?

[fenderfour]

Bill, sounds like the hangers were pulled which I would consider a bit unfortunate...

 

Unless they did it last weekend, IB is still there. A friend of mine climbed it on Friday.

 

p.s.

 

The lower Malmute was shotcreted last weekend because climbers didn't respect the train's right-of-way.

[JosephH]

Look if you don't like climbing via ferratas, don't climb them. Exactly what damage would a via ferrata cause? There is absolutely no distinction between your statements and these.

 

If you're assertion is that bolts and bolting have no impact physically, qualitatively, or on access then you are operating from either from willful or unfortunate blindness or a position so ethically bankrupt it isn't worth discussing further. That position would also imply you simply want to emulate risk-free gym climbing outside wherever you please. Your position is no different than a cigar smoker who can't imagine everyone doesn't love the smell of his cigar or a dog owner who can't fathom why anyone would have a problem with his dog shitting in their yard.

 

Hint: Even when cigar smokers and dog owners are a majority their cigars and dogshit still stinks even if they all don't mind breathing and stepping in it. They still degrade the experience of others who do not share the new majority's particular form of self-gratification.

Edited April 13, 2007 by JosephH

[dan_forester]

hey look, a speculation thread! was ib chopped or not? what % of climbers care?

[StevenSeagal]

Are you enjoying yourself?

 

Yes! Very much! I just bought a whole bag of bolts. There's so much blank rock out there waiting to feel the bite of my drill, I just don't know where to start! In time I may be able to put up, oh I don't know, maybe 20 new routes! I wonder if I should hire an agent now, or should I wait?

 

I hired my movie agent early, and that worked out great; but this is different. This isn't so much about me, it's more about giving a service to the community! I can't wait to contribute!