Rigid crampons

[Jman]

What are your opinions on using rigid crampons for low-level glaciers? I've never owned a pair or rigids so I'm not sure about the cons. Are they all that uncomfortable to walk in?

[erik]

rigid crampons ball up like it is going out of style. they are best and only application in my opinion for ice climbing. sure oyu can get away with it, but what a pain in the ass.

there is no flex so it is akward to walk in anyways.

 

[DPS]

I agree with Erik. Rigid crampons are a pain on anything other than waterfalls.

[Dru]

Knew a girl who put rigid crampons (footfangs) on flexible boots and walked 10km on a Coast Range glacier in late summer coming out from the Thiassi area. Her foot flexing broke one of the crampons in half!

[Jman]

Doh! Well, I know better than to put rigids on soft boots. But if the snow balls up, is there really even a need for crampons? (unless of course there is glacial ice under a layer of soft snow).

[Juneriver]

Yeah I've got a friend whose setup is footfangs w/ his makalus. He has trucked up Rainer and a couple of other volcanos with those things.

The worst part is he's still faster than me.

His calves are disproportionate to the rest of his body though....

[Beck]

Rigids are recommended for rigid boots only, I don't know if a counter person will fit a set of rigids to a flexible boot unless he's a dipshit. Flex is key to comfort, especially if you like to be comfortable, I'd recommend leaving the rigid cramps and boots at home unlessit's 1)vertical or 2) you're wearing plastics or doubles.

[jblakley]

I'm not sure about the newer rigids but my Footfangs are noticeably heavier than my G12's. Something else to think about. Of course if you really want to go light those new Stubai Ultralight is da shit. I've only used them once but I had them on in a steep couloir in light hikers and they had plenty of bite.

[Neri]

Hi Jman

When climbing in the northwest with rigid crampons in vertical frame design, on glacier or snowfield, they will ball up pretty much like cookie cutter on butter dough. But it depends on snow conditions, the wetter the snow and the higher the temperature the higher the balling affect is. If on glacier and alpine ice try to stay away from rigid - vertical design in the northeast its slightly different story because of different climate

 

[This message has been edited by Neri (edited 08-24-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Neri (edited 08-24-2001).]

[Jman]

Thanks for the feedback.

Assuming you're using boots with rigid soles, I don't see how flexible crampons could be any more comfortable since the boots don't flex anyway. Would this be correct?

Also, it seems the biggest drawback with rigids is balling. Don't anti-balling plates solve this? Or do they just not work very well?

[jblakley]

Well first of all, and anybody correct me if I'm wrong, but rigid soled boots will flex some, certainly more than rigid crampons. So here's the formula I'm postulating:

(rigid boots + rigid crampons) = almost no flex = cookie cutter snow retention = slide to death

(rigid boots + hinged crampons) = some flex = less snow retention = :-)

Unless your going to be doing technical ice/mixed climbing there is no advantage to rigids. What's this fetish for all things rigid you have Jman? <snicker>

[pope]

I like a rigid system for almost everything but walking in the snow/glacier hikes. For warmth and support, you can't beat plastic. Since plastic boots are rigid, I don't see the advantage in hinged crampons. On steep ground, obviously the more rigid the better (at least that's what the girl at the picnic said). Chouinard rigid crampons with Scottish straps provide a reliable and light-weight solution. I've had balling problems .....with my crampons, in wet snow...with most everything I've tried. Nothing a little duct tape won't fix. I have no idea whether you can still buy such a crampon system.

[EddieE]

Another thing to consider with rigid (ice-climbing) crampons is their vertical frontpoints. When you're front-pointing up steep, hard snow, it might be preferable to have the horizontal frontpoints for better bite. Vertical ones have a better chance of cutting through and sliding out. On low level stuff I agree that rigids are a pain in the butt for anything other than approaches to an ice climb. The new semi-rigids with an aggressive secondary point (Black Ice and Sabre Tooths) do a great job at everything.

[This message has been edited by EddieE (edited 08-24-2001).]

[This message has been edited by EddieE (edited 08-24-2001).]

[mattp]

For water-ice and mixed climbing such as might be required to reach a summit when the travel to and from the climbing was going to be quite lengthy, I have successfully used rigid crampons with flexible boots, both telemark ski boots and somewhat flexible hiking boots, and the rigid crampons gave me the support I needed for the technical climbing. However, you better use "vertical bar" crampons like Foot Fangs or Rambos if you are going to use them this way, and I am sure the manufacturer will not take responsibility if you break them. Also, I am sure it is not a good idea to try this for extended walking, as has been indicated above. For lower angled glacier travel, I agree that flexibility is preferable, and I would prefer hinged crampons with flexible boots. I believe the chief distinction in choosing those that will ball up less is to chose crampons without "vertical bars" (a fram that is oriented vertically). Duct tape does work, if it is relatively new.

[This message has been edited by mattp (edited 08-24-2001).]

[Smoker]

First of all, many folks wear their crampons for the wrong conditions and reasons. Simply because your traveling on snow is no reason to wear pons and reflects poor style and judgement. Crampons are designed for hardpack or frozen snow, or ice.

There are times when soft conditions

co-exist with firm/icy conditions. Precautions for balling need to be used then.

I have used my Rambos for approach when the conditions warrent but I cann't count the number of times I have witnessed folks put on crampons in soft conditions. Don't do it! Learn how to place your feet securely in snow. If your fatigued from kicking steps turn the lead over.

As someone else said if your balling up there is probably something wrong.

I am good in my flexi's to about 45 degs. Anything steeper and I am wishing for my rigids. Rigids traverse poorly and worse on steeper slopes.

Good luck

Smoker

[Beck]

Pope mentions Scottish straps- SMC made Scottish straps available thru Mountain gear in Spokane

[Terminal_Gravity]

I have an ageing pair of foot fangs. I love them. I have a pair of hinged pons, but I never use them except to lend to newbies. I have never used the fangs with flexible boots, duh.

On the rare occasion that one should find themselves in a situation that requires crampons and balling is a problem, try these tricks. Concentrate on your step and slide your foot just a little before you plant and also as you lift for your next step. I also spray the plate with dry silicone lubricant, it wears off after a couple of miles but it helps alot for a while.

I think that the comment about horizontal front points holding better than vertical points in soft snow is not based in reality. In true soft it is your toe that is suporting your weight with the points stabilizing your foot. If it's soft over hard, verticals will hold better with less kick. On firm neve its a wash. That being said, I think horizontils work better on rock.