stoves

[climbing_kid]

I have a peak one , it has been well used. Lately I have had to clean it often to keep it operable. I have never been happy with it. I am definately looking for a new one. I have had my eye on a MSR Dragonfly. Anyone know how well they do at higher altitudes? Or where I can purchase one for the best price.

[This message has been edited by climbing kid (edited 03-17-2001).]

[DPS]

I would recommend the MSR XKG. This stove is standard on Alaskan expeditions, they boil fast, are dirt tough and field maintainable.

Altitude is not an issue.

[climbing_kid]

DPS does it have an adjustable flame or alway on high?

[climbing_kid]

Thanks for your replys guys.

[DPS]

Two speeds, off and high.

[Dru]

My personal stove is a coleman "apex 2" which is basically a msr-type stove (bottle and burner) but with feet like a peak-1 and a simmer control. at max. output it is slightly less hot than an msr whisperlite (say 4 min. boil instead of 3.5) but it's a pretty bomber stove. I've only had to perform maintenance it once in maybe 7 years... after a pot of soup boiled over and clogged it. And it's multifuel, but I've never burned anything but white gas, so I don't know that function all that well.

Actually, i don't know if they still make that model or not. But it still works great so why would I need another one? The rest of you may be out of luck though.

[Jman]

I've got a Whisperlite (the basic standard), it's been through quite a few years of use/abuse. Never had any problems. I like the flexibility of rationing how much fuel I need to carry (unlike canister stoves). I've used it at 10,000 feet - no problem. Never even had to do a lick of maintenance to it, either. I recently bought a Primus Alpine Micro that Jim Nelson swears by,... but I have yet use it - wish I could offer advice on it... still in progress on that one.

[philfort]

I have a primus alpine micro - it's great, but I wouldn't rely on it if you're expecting cold weather, or need to boil lots of water. They are hard to start, and don't put out much power when it gets cold. And the longer you have it on, the weaker the output is, because the cannister keeps getting colder and colder. We were able to start one on top of Rainier last summer (temp was probably 20-25F), but it took some coaxing. I guess you could sleep with the cannister.

When it's not cold though, they are great!

I use it mainly for 'going light', when I know the weather won't be too much below freezing. If I go somewhere alone for a day trip, I usually take it with me - with a small titanium kettle, and one of those snowpeak half cannisters, you have a cooking setup that weighs almost nothing, and takes almost no space.

The piezo starter is a nice touch - don't need to fumble for matches or a lighter.

[This message has been edited by philfort (edited 03-19-2001).]

[none_dup1]

I'm in Dan's camp on the XGK insofar as it's bomber and a flamethrower. I'm in Phil's camp on the light butane stoves. I bought a Snow Peak Giga Power titanium stove last summer without the cheap starter attachment (special order from Return Every Item ("REI"). About half the price of the Primus equivalent, as I recall. It weighs 2.5 ozs. and puts out 10,000 btu. With a 1.3 liter titanium pot (Evernew, I think, also from REI), it's a slick little system for light- duty cooking/boiling in moderate conditions. It worked fine at 10,000, but I've not tried it in winter or at high altitude.

John Sharp

[Ade]

I've always used an XGK on major climbing trips. On several of these we've taken other stoves so these are direct comparisons...

Both the Peak 1 and Whisperlite seem more susceptable to clogging than the XGK, especially if the gas you're using is of poor quality. It is actually worth filtering really crap gas, as it can save time in the long run.

The Peak 1 we had didn't seem to like white gas either. It actually got so hot the welds on the flame spreader started to fall apart. The Peak also seems to have more trouble at altitude (over 5000m) but we never managed to work out why.

The XGK is only (full) on or off but that's OK for melting snow and basic cooking if you have decent pans. The thin steel MSR ones are light but rubbish in all other respects. The steel is too thin and doesn't conduct heat well causing hot spots when cooking. I've not used a Ti pan but I suspect they're similar. We had some Steel inside and Aluminum outside composite pans on our last trip and these were excellent. I'm not sure if they're still made or by whom (sorry).

The only real problem with the XGK is that the metal base melts into the snow. I use a couple of cork table mats (mug size) to insulate the bottom of the stove. A lot cheaper than the funky thing MSR sell.

Ade

BTW: I also know people who use Gaz stoves all the time and are very happy with them, convenient in tents etc. I've not used one but they might be worth checking out. You have to modify them for high alitude or cold weather use.

 

[philfort]

just to add a note:

I think the butane stoves will work better at high altitudes, because of the greater pressure differential between the cannister and the air (I think?). However, that's probably more than offset by the colder temperatues typical at high altitudes.

[David_Parker]

I have had a wisperlight and an xgk and I use the wisperlight more because it fits inside my pot. I also like the control factor although I usually have to use the tiny wire poker to unclog the jet frequently (I have one duct taped to each one of my fuel bottles.)

XGK users....is your fuel shaft on viagra...permanantly stiff!?? Mine is an old model and I always thought a big improvement would be a flexible fuel supply line. I suppose the stiff shaft alows for better overall support but I have not figured out a good way to pack the darn thing! I also don't like the pot support wires because they swing around way too easily.

Overall I really like MSR because I can take them totally apart and put them back together in the field w/out major tools.

My next stove will be one I can HANG! Any suggestions?

BTW, my first stove was a peak one and after the thing leaked and caught on fire, I drop kicked it across the parking lot in Leavenworth! That thing is about as good as the Apollo 13 lunar modual!

DPP

[Ade]

The new XGKs have legs that cross in the middle rather than sticking out (two wires not four). You can buy the new style legs and they'll fit on your old stove. I found this a great improvement.

I never worked out why the XGK has such long rigid tube. I always pack food in the pans and keep the stove in a separate bag, it's dirty anyway.

My friends who use a hanging gaz stove use the BD/Bibler one. There was a stove review in Climbing that might be worth checking out. You can use a flattened copper tube to conduct heat from the jet of your gaz stove to the cylinder. You can also insulate the cylinder with some closed cell foam and sleep with the cylinder to keep it warm. I've seen several others suggesting this approach but the usual disclaimers apply, this is not without risk, I told you it was possible, not that you should do it.

Ade

 

[Dru]

a buddy had 4 dragonflies break on a 4 week road trip....

[climbing_kid]

Dru, what stove do you use or recomend?

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[Rodchester]

David Parker,

I have seen a "lunar module" crash and burn too.

Climbing Kid:

The XGK II is a real barnburner and sooo reliable. And when they do crash, they are very repairable.

I have used the MSRs (XGK II and Whisperlights) On long and high trips to the Andes and found they work great on 0therwise suspect fuel.

I recently acquired a Dragonfly stove. I have not had the opportunity to really put it to the test just yet. I have friends at MSR who have told me that it is basically an XGK II with a simmer switch.

Good = easy to simmer

Bad = more parts to break, repair

Liquid v. Cartridge

Efficiency:

Liquid are very efficient. No comparison with cartridge stoves.

Weight and bulk:

Liquid stoves tend to weigh more and tend to be more bulky.

Performance:

On most models the liquid stoves win, but many cartridge stoves can really put out the heat, just not efficiently. Most cartridge stoves lack a good windscreen set up, which effects performance.

Maintenance:

Liquid stoves tend to be more temperamental and require more care, but they are usually very repairable. Each part is replaceable.

Cartridge stoves tend to be damn near maintenance free. Turn on, light, cook. But when they do break they are gone, trash can time.

Availability of fuel:

In USA and Canada both are easy to come by.

However, in South America white gas is very hard to find. Make sure your stove burns multiple fuels. (This is where the XGK and Dragonfly excel) Make sure you bring a coffee style filer to strain the fuel. Unless your stove says will burn "chunky style" fuels. Auto gas is the easiest to obtain for your liquid fuel stoves.

Cartridges are quite popular and can be obtained throughout most of the world. They may be hard to find in many areas, but hit the cities and stock up as you pass through.

Enviro concerns:

Face it, cartridges suck. I am sure some one out there is going to say how they heard about some place that recycles them, yeah right. They will sit in landfills, and not rot.

Rule of thumb (my thumb anyway):

Liquid = Mt. Rainier, long trips, snow melting, mountaineering,

Cartridge = backpacking, alpine rock, short trips, light duty cooking, coco, coffee

That is the view from my side of the mountain.......

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Have a nice day.

[Dru]

Of course, for road trips, what you really want is a green Coleman 2-burner suitcase.

[Illimani94]

We had our Dragonfly up to 16,000' in Bolivia last summer. Ran fine on the white gas we managed to find there. The ability to throttle down is very nice, not only for simmering meals, but also to keep a stove ticking over until you're ready for the next brew. No repriming. Big footprint is pretty stable.

Having said that, THE stove for reliability, horsepower, and ability to burn just about any flammable liquid is the X G/K. They are a pain to pack, simmer is almost nonexistent, but lots of heat and you can always fix what's wrong. We burned crappy auto gas (leaded!?) our first trip to Bolivia; I did a lot of reaming out tubing and cleaning jets, but the thing ran.

The Primus Multifuel looks like a great idea - in theory you can burn a variety of liquid fuels plus Lindahl-valve cartridges. Guys I know who've used the stove say the power is good and it's pretty reliable. I've shied away because I know how to repair MSRs, and don't Primus.

I really like the Coleman XTreme stove. Light, high output, and their innovative cartridges are more tolerant of cold than most. Plus they're recyclable.

[Rodchester]

Illimani94,

Question...If they are recyclable, where do you take them to recycle?

The local recycle won't touch ANYTHING that has had fuel in it. While I think it is great if they CAN be recycled, the real thing is, will they actually be recycled?

Tell me if I am wrong, I would love to recycle mine.

Thanks for any input....

[Illimani94]

Hmmm... You may have me there. I finished the cartridges out, punctured them with the included tool, let them air out, and smashed them flat. Aluminum, easy to do. I then threw them in my duffel and flew them home. And added them to the recyclables bag for trash pickup. It's possible the recycling guys balked when they got to the bag. I doubt it though. By the time they got home they neither smelled like fuel nor looked like a gas cartridge.

So I don't really KNOW for sure, I'm just assuming. Coleman says the cartridges are recyclable, and they give you the means to purge any remaining gas.

That's my story.

[forrest_m]

I just got back from 3 months in S. America, we had an XGK and a Dragonfly along, so I got to see them side by side. As expected, when we could keep it running, the Dragonfly was the preferred stove, because of the second throttle and wider legs, but it seemed to be a lot more finnickey with the funky fuels. In particular, they would build up a black gunk on the inner end of the fine-control rod, necessitating frequent cleaning. You also cannot pull the cable out of the fuel line, leaving you dependent on a foam filter in the end than you (at best) only have 1 spare for in the repair kit. That said, we never had to eat cold food, the problems were always resolvable, which is why I am an MSR fan for long trips like this. Two comments to add to the discussion:

1) For funky fuels, replace the normal jet with the kerosene jet (included with the stove), it has a wider hole and will clog less, even if you are using some fuel other than kerosene (ie automobile gasoline)

2) Regarding the viagra fuel rod, we met some dutch climbers who had simply bent the stiff fuel line of their XGK so that it fit into their pot. They had been going for 7 months with no problems to report. Seems like a good solution to me, but I would be curious to know if MSR would claim some reason why this is not desirable.

This is a bit of a side issue, but interesting: it is pretty common on long trips in the boonies to use emptied pop bottles to haul extra fuel around (i.e. 6 weeks of fuel to base camp). Unlike in the US, where you would just bring a couple of metal coleman fuel cans along, when you are buying fuel at the pump or the hardware store, a reliable can is hard to find. The "fuel" cannisters you can get usually leak or are of the extremely heavy and expensive mount-on-the-back-of-your-jeep type. In most respects, the pop bottles are a great solution: dirt cheap, quite durable and easy to pack and you can flatten them when they are empty for easy carrying out.

However, we discovered that after about a month, the fuel got contaminated by a gummy substance that caused us endless stove-cleaning headaches. It seemed that the caps of the bottles were dissolving from the gas fumes, though by appearances the bottles themselves were still ok. Anyone know why this might be or how you could avoid it?

[AJ]

Two weeks ago I did some side-by-side testing in fairly miserable conditions. It was 10F to 20F (max) at Panorama Point (~7400') and snowing a lot (2 feet overnight). Anyway, we had one new-prototype MSR XGK, two standard MSR Dragonfly, and one very old MSR Whisperlite (before they redid the shaker).

So, what did we find? The XGK can melt snow and boil water so much faster than the other stoves we eventually turned off a Dragonfly. In fact, with our set-up the Dragonfly stoves were pretty pathetic. Granted - they used less fuel and theoretically could have simmered something, but simmering just wasn't in our plans. The Whisperlite had faster boil times than the Dragonfly, but much longer than the XGK.

Like I mentioned - it was the new prototype fuel bottle connection. It seemed to work fine and with a couple refinements it might even be an improvement over the current system. However, I'm getting an XGK regardless.

I've had a Whisperlite International (600) for a few years and it has worked well. That was a replacement for my old Peak 1 which eventually became too much of a fire hazard to feel comfortable with.

[jblakley]

XGK all the way. I'm too much of a hack cook to appreciate simmer anyway. I'm on my second one in about 8 years and love it. plus it's a great way to wake up your climbing mates in the morning..lol. Also keeps bears away.

[Yossarian]

Someone has to show support for the 'fly

I've had mine for a couple of years and been very satisfied with its performance. Check the specs for heat times, I'm pretty sure it beat the Whisperlite. Used it up to 12,000 with no problems. It also has the most stable base of all the MSR stoves.

[Jedi]

Forrest, I had thought about trying the soda bottle thing. I have stored some fuel in a Gatorade bottle in my gear closet to see if the plastic "melted" or contaminated the fuel. The liquid fuel has not been in direct contact (like it would sloshing around in a pack) with the cap and the cap has not become gummy. It has been over 2 months. Guess I need to lay the bottle on it's side. Still I think this idea is better (if the cap melting problem can be resolved) than the big heavy metal fuel containers.

I think I will contact MSR today and try to find out more about bending the fuel rod thing. That sure would be nice if it fit in the pot! The trick would be to bend it without putting a kink in the rod thus restricting flow.