Media glorification of mountaineering accidents

[iain]

Ryland, I sent you a PM with some details.

[OrganDonor]

This may have been posted, but I think it depends on why you need rescued. If its clearly your own stupidity that put you in a position to need rescued, then yeah you should be charged. If its an accident that could of happened to anyone and you really had no control over the situation then you shouldnt be charged. So basically all the climbers with some decent common sense shouldn't have to worry.

[kevbone]

Unless the media reports are incorrect, the most serious injury of any of the fallen climbers was an injured wrist and some cuts. Why these folks were unable to walk out White River Canyon is mistifying to me.

 

 

 

black eye and ankle sprain, Kate ankle sprain, wrist and fingers sprained, Christina hurt, crampon to the head bloody nasty, black eyes, swollen head maybe a concussion, bad burn on her shoulder from the fall and a hairline fracture of her hand.

 

A mutual friend went a saw them in the hospital these are there injuries

 

 

Edited February 22, 2007 by kevbone

[gslater]

These folks are doing a disservice to the climbing community by sensationalizing their rescue in the media. Its pouring gas on the debate over MLU requirements.

 

Also doing disservice to the climbing community are the officials (sheriff deputies and perhaps SAR) who were quoted on TV and in the paper as saying this group "did everything right, and that's what led to their rescue". Ummmm, maybe they did everything right after they realized they were hosed and called for help, but if they truly "did everything right", the world would never have heard of Velvet the wonderdog.

[dmuja]

Today show and Ellen Degenerate huh?

 

Gee Kevbone, please pass along our heartfelt thanks to your friend and the group, they'er such great representatives of the sport. Maybe they can write a survival book about their epic battle with Momma Nature on Mt Doom and we can all learn the details of how they "did everything right"..

 

Only in Hollywood

[barkernews]

and then we get to shoot the media ass clowns as well just for the fun of it.

 

good times..

 

Nice.

Violence.

That'll do it.

 

Your generalizations are sickening.

 

Blame the media. Some of us are climbers too.

[kevbone]

 

Ummmm, maybe they did everything right after they realized they were hosed and called for help, but if they truly "did everything right", the world would never have heard of Velvet the wonderdog.

 

Jesus Christ you like to speculate…..oh wait….im sorry…I forgot. You were there and know exactly what happened.

[carolyn]

To reduce speculation, kevbone, would it be reasonable to ask one of your friends who had been rescued to either post what happened on here or send a report to you to post.

 

Im sure most folks would rather hear it from the horses mouth than sit here and 'speculate'. If everything was done "right" (which I dont know - and Im not being sarcastic), then it would be more of a service to share that information with the climbing community. If something happened due to nature or human error, then it would be a service to the community to share that in order to learn.

 

Obviously we can wait until ANAM comes out. But considering the amount of presstime they are willing to participate in, maybe asking them to do this isnt such an innappropriate request.

[dmuja]

Hey barkerspew,

 

Kiss my ass.

 

You can do it non violently if you prefer.

 

Otherwise, Im into suffering as well.

 

 

[wfinley]

Having been the object of media glorification in the past I'll give my $.02. In 1998 my partner and I made the classic mountaineering blunder and opted to descend a section of steep snow without running protection while neglecting to place running protection because we considered it 'easy'. To make a long story short we fell; he was badly injured and our rescue - along with another accident that happened almost simultaneously with ours on the same route - become national news as the world sat poised in front of NBC to watch the rescue unfold. My photo was on the cover of many big news rags, the same photo ran in newsweek.

 

Upon returning safely to Anchorage I was contacted by numerous newspapers and media companies. I turned down interviews with the Today show, Readers Digest, the local papers and even a program from the Weather Channel about rescues in foul weather. It was my feeling that the international attention I and my partner were receiving was unjust in that my partner was in a coma and his wife and family were praying for his survival. Furthermore I thought it was unjust that the media turned our stupid blunder into some sort of heroic survival trick.

 

I know the public wants news and loves crap like mountain rescues but regardless - I wasn't going to give them my time or comments so they could stretch out the events into the headlines for another day. The media turned it into an event and frankly it sickened me.

 

In my opinion it is climbers like these guys who perpetuate the public opinion that climbers are foolish risk takers. I am the first to agree that anyone can make a stupid mistake - but to flaunt your stupid mistake and use it to get your 15 minutes of fame does a great disservice to the rest of us.

 

If you get into an accident keep your mouth shut and tell the media to fuck off. If you feel the urge to explain yourself write an article; whatever you do - resist the urge to go on national TV with a stupid grin.

 

 

[dmuja]

wfinley, post of the day!

 

At least they're calling them "hikers" now.

[ambys]

I was just over at katu.com and saw their poll of "Do you think climbers should be required to reimburse counties for rescue expenses?". And over 75% of people think climbers should reimburse counties. While we can blow them off as ignorant or whatever, I think as a community we should do something to combat this misinformation and ignorance.

 

I'm really glad you made this thread; I've had my own thoughts brewing ever since the December incident and I'm absolutely furious with the media coverage and portrayal of the climbing community.

 

The broad suggestion that climbers be billed for rescues as a general practice is absolutely naive and if it were implemented would yield catastrophic consequences.

 

First of all, let's not forget that SAR teams are run by volunteers; these are people who go out willingly looking to help other climbers. They're all climbers themselves, and they wouldn't be doing the SAR if they didn't believe in the cause, so the argument that you're putting them at risk holds no water, because they are there by their own volition not only as a member of a SAR team, but on a per-incident basis.

 

Second, are we genuinely prepared to deny rescue coverage to those who can't afford it--whether their mistakes result from stupidity or just bad luck? I acknowledge that a mountaineering accident is not inherently analogous to a housefire, but if some idiot leaves the stove on overnight and his house burns down, it's not like the fire department isn't going to put it out.

 

Third, do we really want to legislate a measure that will convince stranded climbers not to call for help? When somebody is literally in a life-and-death situation, do we really want them weighing the pros and cons before attempting to contact a rescue team?

 

When I go climbing or mountaineering, I acknowledge the risks as best I can and accept the consequences of those that I take. Even when I have a locater beacon with me, I never take a risk that I wouldn't take without it. But if I do have a beacon with me and I find myself in a dire position, why in the world would I not use it? Going back to argument #1, the authorities and rescuers can and will decide for themselves whether or not to come get me. If there's a bad storm, they're going to wait it out anyway. I see absolutely nothing wrong with initiating a rescue, regardless of why it became necessary, so long as it is indeed necessary.

 

Lastly, from an economic standpoint, "if it ain't broke..." It's not as if large sums of our hard-earned tax dollars are being redirected from critical national security measures. A friend at YOSAR told me that even when the military is involved directly that they don't mind helping out in the least. It's good PR, it's good practice for their helicopter pilots, and the expense within the defense budget is negligable.

 

If people genuinely believe that climbers ought to be billed for rescues, then those people need to make their case, because frankly I don't see it.

[gslater]

Jesus Christ you like to speculate…..oh wait….im sorry…I forgot. You were there and know exactly what happened.

 

Actually, no, I don't like to speculate. My comment was not speculation. But you sure do like to hysterically defend something in which you were not personally involved either...

 

As someone else said above, have your friends come out and offer up some useful information, rather than making the media tour about their miracle survival. Their appearances are not doing any good for this activity that we all love.

 

I was somewhat annoyed when I saw them on ABC the other morning. When the interviewer (Diane Sawyer?) said something like "it's just incredible that you survived a fall of 500 feet!", I was hoping/expecting them to say something like "well, I tumbled down a snow slope and got banged up a bit in the process. I'm not really sure how far it was. And it's not like I fell of a 500 foot cliff or anything..." And then, perhaps to make a point of thanking everyone for helping them out, and acknowledging the climbing community and its solid VOLUNTEER spirit. And maybe acknowledge that a better choice in travel plans could have ben made. Instead, they just kind of sat there grinning, and said nothing to clear up what actually happened, leaving the uninformed viewers to speculate about the life-or-death drama that happens to us crazy climbers.

 

Admittedly, I wasn't there, and no, I don't know what actually happened. But I've spent enough time in the mountains, and in that exact area specifically, to believe that this big fall was actually a tumble down a steep hill, and not a free fall off a cliff. Letting people believe it was something else is lame.

 

Or perhaps I'm totally wrong.

[ryland_moore]

Kevbone, make your friends read these posts. Maybe then they will realize that they are not helping but hindering the climbing community by doing what they are doing with the media blitz. Glorified for stupidity, and wearing crampons? Why? Who wears crampons in a snowstorm descending a low-angled snow slope?

 

barkernews, I saw several of your live coverages on the news during this event. You complain that people do not respect you and our profession, but you are part of the problem with regards to the complaints being stated on this thread. You stated several times that the MLU is what saved them and never once addressed the fact that the people lacked the experience to be there and created the problem themselves. You never stated that the initial group was located through the use of the GPS, or address the fact that they were not able to navigate with the GPS unit they possessed. You folded to the media hype, jumped on the bandwagon, and did not once stand up for the climbing community. Plus, every report from KATU I've seen has not once addressed the climbing community's perspective with regards to this incident or with regards to the proposed Bill on carrying MLUs. The worst part abot it is the media is looking at this website for information, but only chooses to print what will make a good story and ends up distorting the truth of what really happened.

 

If you are a climber than why don't you act more like Fox and be "Fair and Balanced." If you are stating that you are a member of the climbing community (Different then I am a climber), then you should provide information and interviews that address the climbing community's perspective. Maybe Dmuja takes it a little too far ith his toungue in cheek remarks, but I would say that you are not a part of the solution ut a part of the problem.

 

 

Sorry for the dose of reality and const4ructive criticism. if you want to meet in person and talk about these issues over a beer, I live in No Po as well.

 

[kevbone]

Actually, no, I don't like to speculate. My comment was not speculation.

 

Yes you do. And yes it was.

 

Their appearances are not doing any good for this activity that we all love.

 

In your opinion.

 

Admittedly, I wasn't there, and no, I don't know what actually happened

 

So STFU

 

Letting people believe it was something else is lame.

 

You take the red pill…..and believe….whatever you want to believe.

 

[ambys]

If you are a climber than why don't you act more like Fox and be "Fair and Balanced."

Nice post, but I chuckled at this

[kevbone]

Who wears crampons in a snowstorm descending a low-angled snow slope?

 

What kind of question is this? A stupid one at that. Oh….I forgot. Our teachers taught us that there is no such thing as a stupid questions. Guess you proved that wrong.

 

They were on snow. They obviously felt the need for crampons.

 

[kevbone]

Kevbone, make your friends read these posts.

 

They would never comment on this forum. Spend too much time climbing.

[ryland_moore]

Kevbone, you are an idiot. You do not know what you are talking about with regards to anything involving stuff besides rock, so you are the one you needs to STFU. It is embarassing a nd I feel sorry for you.

 

If they were climbers in the sense of having snow skills then they would not have done the things they did. For example Bone, if you were at Smith and saw someone wearing their harness backwards or backclipping every draw, or belaying incorrectly, you would think, "They don't know what the hell they are doing." Right? So, when I hear that the climbers were wearing crampons descending from I Saddle in a snowstorm, I think the same thing. Same goes for having a GPS unit and not knowing how to navigate down with it. The being roped up part I might be able to understand in a complete whiteout so as not to lose any members of the group. The whole situation just reeks of Recreational Darwinism. Unfortunately, it happens way to often on Mt. Hood. I've seen worse for sure. I even was criticized for writing a stupid article about it in some climbing rag several years ago. But keep in mind, Bone, the only way people become better climbers is to learn from experiences and learning from people more skilled then they are. They forgot about the latter.

 

As regards to the Fair and Balanced comment, I was joking, of course.....It was more to point out that, while stereotypical, it does lump most media sources all into one....

[kevbone]

Kevbone, you are an idiot.

 

Takes one to know one.

 

You do not know what you are talking about with regards to anything involving stuff besides rock

 

More speculation. You dont know what I know.

 

[sobo]

Howdy,

 

I was just over at katu.com and saw their poll of "Do you think climbers should be required to reimburse counties for rescue expenses?". And over 75% of people think climbers should reimburse counties. While we can blow them off as ignorant or whatever, I think as a community we should do something to combat this misinformation and ignorance.

 

I know on our forums we have put out the statistics of what percent of SAR operations are related to mountaineering and how the budget already exists for these events.

 

I think we need to be more proactive in this area and write to papers and the news stations. I'm the last person in the world to write letters to the editor, but this just bugs the hell out of me.

 

Is anyone here more literate than me who could help with this? Or is this a bad idea and I should let it go?

 

hippos

 

I'm soooooooo glad I bookmarked this post. I knew I'd need it again some day...

 

For the ignorant armchair climbers

[ryland_moore]

So since you are friends with these hikers, then please answer a few questions for us:

 

Why did they not navigate back to T-line using the GPS?

 

Why did they stay when they knew there was a big storm coming in?

 

Why did they not descend White River Canyon? Seems like very minor injuries to me and not hard to get lost in that canyon down to the snowpark.

 

Why are they claiming they fell 500 ft? if you look at a map there is not a continuous 500 foot loss in elevation between the main south slope and the bottom of white river canyon anywhere from below the Devil's Kitchen down to Timberline Lodge.

 

Why did they have crampons on while descending a moderate snow slope while it was snowing? (I was up on Hood on Saturday and know what the conditions were like the day before)

 

What was the mountaineering experience of all of the hikers?

 

Please answer all of these questions all-knowing one.....

[Weekend_Climberz]

I think everyone should use Joe Simpson's example of self-rescue. If you don't think you can handle that, then you shouldn't be up there.

[hippos_are_evil]

If someone on this board, like barkernews, works for a news agency and is a climber, isn't there something you can do? sobo put out the link to an older post that had URLs of reports that put things in perspective. Use your position to do something good, the rest of us can't as easily

 

I know that it won't be as newsworthy as a dog keeping people alive that might've frozen to death, and I realize they are in the news cos the last group to be searched for died and they had a cute cuddly dog with them.

 

But maybe you could mention these facts as the general populace listens to the newscasts. Most normal people would cool off if they realized what a small percent of rescues are for mountaineering.

 

As for the climbers who fell, it would be nice if they let us know what happened as we're seeming to be super critical of them. I doubt anyone here is climbing so much that they can't respond. As I'm ranting already, I think they should use their media coverage to do some good instead of talk about the dog and pep talks.

 

If I f*** up on the mountain and I had a voice being heard, I'd try to use it for something informational, whether it's through here, an accident report or the news. I can half see people thinking they just need a MLU and a fluffy dog to summit Mt. Doom.

 

 

[Clavote]

Having been the object of media glorification in the past I'll give my $.02. In 1998 my partner and I made the classic mountaineering blunder and opted to descend a section of steep snow without running protection while neglecting to place running protection because we considered it 'easy'. To make a long story short we fell; he was badly injured and our rescue - along with another accident that happened almost simultaneously with ours on the same route - become national news as the world sat poised in front of NBC to watch the rescue unfold. My photo was on the cover of many big news rags, the same photo ran in newsweek.

 

Upon returning safely to Anchorage I was contacted by numerous newspapers and media companies. I turned down interviews with the Today show, Readers Digest, the local papers and even a program from the Weather Channel about rescues in foul weather. It was my feeling that the international attention I and my partner were receiving was unjust in that my partner was in a coma and his wife and family were praying for his survival. Furthermore I thought it was unjust that the media turned our stupid blunder into some sort of heroic survival trick.

 

I know the public wants news and loves crap like mountain rescues but regardless - I wasn't going to give them my time or comments so they could stretch out the events into the headlines for another day. The media turned it into an event and frankly it sickened me.

 

In my opinion it is climbers like these guys who perpetuate the public opinion that climbers are foolish risk takers. I am the first to agree that anyone can make a stupid mistake - but to flaunt your stupid mistake and use it to get your 15 minutes of fame does a great disservice to the rest of us.

 

If you get into an accident keep your mouth shut and tell the media to fuck off. If you feel the urge to explain yourself write an article; whatever you do - resist the urge to go on national TV with a stupid grin.

 

 

Who the fuck were those wannabes?

 

I want to avoid climbing with them or avoid the mountain they are on. These people just seem like pure bad luck or they have too much money and not enough brains to be buying GPS units and not know how to use them at a critical moment. A critical moment.

 

I can not see that they fell 500feet. Where? did I miss a cliff or something? They should have corrected the issue of the fall, but either they wanted to appear even more badass or were they so fucking clueless that they had no idea how far they rolled/fell. Maybe that newfangled GPS was set to record a track.

But hey, you sit there with a shit eating grin and don't bother to set the record straight or perhaps even rebutt the "mandatory MLU" folks. But noooooo....you were on TV.

 

Good for you. I hope you got paid for your 15 minutes of infamy.

 

These guys are probably alive because modern society has mitigated the effects of natural selection. And this one scenario had plenty of opportunities to allow for different decisions and a different outcome, IF someone was thinking. Such as getting off the mountain while you can.

 

But no......they had a MLU, GPS, compass and map, etc...and in the end, it took a cell phone call to save them.