Fluoride Good,Bad Why?

[chucK]

Well, you see, you've just stated the argument for floridation. Basically, floridation provides James, and all kids in the water district, with some protection versus early childhood caries. It is completely analogous to Santa leaving James a toothbrush.

[tvashtarkatena]

Well, you see, you've just stated the argument for flordation. Basically, floridation provides James and everyone else with protection versus early childhood caries.

 

Nothing like the government stepping in to make up for bad parenting.

[chucK]

Ha! Never thought I'd see you making a post that I'd expect to read from KKfuckhead or JayB. Everyone needs to take care of themselves and it's not my responsibility. They should pull themselves up by the bootstraps.

 

[tvashtarkatena]

It's one thing to let poor old ladies die in the snow, and quite another to deny your little brat candy and teach him how to brush his teeth.

 

Belief in the power of appropriate public policy well executed is not the same as wanting no government at all, nor is it equivalent to abdicated all personal responsibility.

 

Hopefully this thread wiil die soon. It has an awful overbite.

Edited January 8, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[chucK]

I'm not talking about a certain parent and what they should do. Of course parents should do right by their kids.

 

Floridation is a public health deal (saving everybody's kids, not just your own). Look, a lot a people have no access to dental care. A lot of people are downright afraid of the dentist. A lot of people have no idea that putting your baby to bed with a bottle in her mouth is the best way give her ECC.

 

Of course the government should attempt to educate as to good pediatric dental practices. This is a funded goal in many places. It is a difficult task to reach many people, and sometimes people will feel they are being told they are bad parents, and thus shut out whatever you say.

 

Another effective method which can be used is floridation. Send them prevention for their dental maladies right through the pipe. Seems like a good idea to me.

[tvashtarkatena]

I'm not talking about a certain parent and what they should do. Of course parents should do right by their kids.

 

Floridation is a public health deal (saving everybody's kids, not just your own). Look, a lot a people have no access to dental care. A lot of people are downright afraid of the dentist. A lot of people have no idea that putting your baby to bed with a bottle in her mouth is the best way give her ECC.

 

Of course the government should attempt to educate as to good pediatric dental practices. This is a funded goal in many places. It is a difficult task to reach many people, and sometimes people will feel they are being told they are bad parents, and thus shut out whatever you say.

 

Another effective method which can be used is floridation. Send them prevention for their dental maladies right through the pipe. Seems like a good idea to me.

 

OK, first of all, 'flouridation' has a 'u'. Sorry, but it was bugging me. I don't buy some of this (anyone can afford a toothbrush and toothpaste, no one's going to eschew dental hygiene because they think they're being preached to), but I do agree that public education is a very good thing. With proper dental care and diet, however, you'll agree that flouridation is not necessary. Personally, I'm uncomfortable with the government putting stuff in my water, not out of paranoia, but just because I like my water nice and pure.

 

But then again, I can filter it. So it's not an incredibly big deal to me either way. It seems that the tone of this thread comes more from taking my very reasonable and personal decision and blowing it up into into the ravings of a conspiracy theory addict. Anyone whose read my posts on this site knows that's pretty far from the mark.

[Buckaroo]

"I simply take the issue off my plate entirely."

 

totally agree, we are a natural organism, why pollute yourself with unnatural chemicals. Why be a test dummy for the chem/healthcare corps.

 

"not a single one of us on this forum really know jack shit about fluoridation one way or the other"

 

allow me to do some mind exercise then. It's a very long and sordid story of how big money convinces the sheeple that black is indeed white. And fluoride also acts as a sedative, what better way to continue to control the sheeple.

 

As far as filters, read the fine print, the small low budget filters don't get chlorine or flouride. Sometimes it won't say on the box you have to go to the website.

 

the following is a condensed article, full article HERE

 

Is Fluoride Really As Safe As You Are Told?

 

The fluoride added to 90% of drinking water is hydrofluoric acid which is a compound of fluorine that is a chemical byproduct of aluminum, steel, cement, phosphate, and nuclear weapons manufacturing.

 

Such fluoride is manmade. In this form, fluoride has no nutrient value whatsoever. It is one of the most caustic of industrial chemicals. Fluoride is the active toxin in rat poisons and cockroach powder.

 

....a toxic industrial waste could be passed off on the public as a nutrient with necessary health benefits, to the tune of $10 billion per year. Or more.

 

Once in the body, fluoride is a destroyer of human enzymes. It does this by changing their shapes. Since enzymes are proteins, once they've been changed, they're now foreign-looking. The body now treats them as invaders, even though they're part of that body. This is known as an autoimmune situation - the body attacks itself.

 

The most thorough explanation of the origin, action, diseases, and politics of fluoride was presented in a book called Fluoride the Aging Factor by John Yiamouyiannis, PhD.

 

Dr. Y starts by citing hundreds of international studies of fluoridation that have been conducted all over the world since the 1930s. After awhile, there seem to be just two types:

 

* Studies that were really looking to find out about fluoride

* Studies that were trying to cover up what had already been discovered

 

"Fluoride is more poisonous than lead, and just less poisonous than arsenic."- Clinical Toxicology of Commercial Products - 1984

 

Today, the recommended level remains at 1 - 1.2 PPM, with the maximum allowable level set at 4 PPM by the EPA.

 

Maximum Contaminant Level Allowed In U.S. Drinking Water:

 

Arsenic -- 50 Parts Per Billion

Lead -- 15 Parts Per Billion

Fluoride -- 4000 Parts Per Billion

 

Source: EPA National Primary Drinking Water Standards (July 1987)

 

As California Medical Association president Dr. Alesen points out, concentration in parts per million sidesteps the issue, regarding something that accumulates in the body year after year. The EPA is comparing fluorine to vitamins, for which there are minimum daily requirements.

But vitamins are completely used up in a day or less. They don't accumulate.

 

Fluoride Accelerates Your Aging Process

 

Collagen Is The Body's Glue and Fluoride Ruins It

 

Fluoride Ruins Your Teeth

 

Fluoride And Osteoporosis

 

Cancer And Fluoride

 

But what if lobbyists from these industries could present "scientific studies" paid for by the industries, and provide for a continual stream of media presentations about the health benefits of fluoride, and create unimaginably lucrative positions for "research" and "education" within the American Dental Association and the AMA, and do all these things in a consistent and unending way, year after year?

 

The Players: ALCOA Aluminum, mega-giant producer of aluminum, was founded by Andrew Mellon, who was also appointed Secretary of Treasury, since he seemed to know something about money.

 

ALCOA funded a top research facility known as the Mellon Institute. In 1931, a Mellon Institute report by Gerald Cox suggested that 1 PPM fluoride added to drinking water would be good for the teeth. That was it. No studies, no comparisons, no data. All previous research studies had shown that fluoride was toxic. The US Public Health Service (USPHS) at that time was under the jurisdiction of the Secretary of Treasury - Andrew Mellon, who also owned ALCOA.

 

The USPHS sponsored some research put out by their own Dr. HT Dean, manipulating data so that it "proved" that this same figure of 1 PPM resulted in reduction of tooth decay.

 

Next problem: sell it to the American Medical Association and the American Dental Association.

 

This took years. Even in 1943, an article in JAMA described fluoride as a poison that damaged enzyme systems even at a concentration of 1 PPM. The article showed concern about 25,000 tons of fluorine released into the atmosphere every year from the phosphate fertilizer industry. (JAMA, Sept 18, 1943).

 

The following year Journal of the American Dental Association ran another article warning that fluoridated water caused osteoporosis, goiter, and spinal disease. They stated that "the potentialities for harm far outweigh those for good." (JADA, 1 Oct 1944)

 

In 1944, ALCOA hired an attorney named Oscar Ewing at a salary of $750,000 per year. That same year Ewing was appointed to the Federal Security Administration. The USPHS was a division of the Federal Security Association. So now ALCOA's boy was in a position to control the policies of the Public Health Service.

 

Ewing chose his PR man for fluoridation: Edward Bernays, the nephew of Sigmund Freud.

 

Edward L. Bernays, described by the Washington Post as the 'original spin doctor" was responsible for evolving the pro-fluoridation propaganda and disinformation machine. How anxious he was to put his uncle's ideas and methods of persuasion into action. (Dr. Y, p143)

 

" ... those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country ... our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of ... "

- Bernays, (Propaganda)

 

Using classical Freudian principles, Bernays maintained that a well-oiled propaganda machine could make the public believe practically anything, even the exact opposite of what had been already proven by all existing scientific research. And this is exactly what Ewing needed in the case of fluoridation.

 

By 1952, the American Dental Association had turned completely, publishing the articles of radical fluoride advocate Frank Bull in the JADA. Bull's whole focus was disinformation; avoiding confrontation with actual studies. As the B in BS, Bull put the propaganda theories of Bernays into actual practice.

 

Next, Procter and Gamble scored big when they got the ADA to endorse fluoride in toothpaste. Any dentists who spoke out against this ADA decision were censured, lost grant funding, or were thrown out of the ADA.

 

By 1960 the alliance was formed:

 

* ALCOA

* the US Public Health Service

* the Federal Security Administration

* the American Dental Association

* Procter&Gamble.

 

Always remember - the ADA is a trade union, a lobby whose main purpose is furthering the economic advancement of the dental profession.

 

The ADA Doesn't Represent Dental Health.

 

And in many cases the ADA doesn't represent the dentists themselves. This is especially true in the class action suit filed by some 40 dentists against the ADA in a DC Superior Court. The charges? Ethical breach of the public trust for recommending fluoridation while failing to inform its members and the public of the widespread available literature proving toxicity.

 

What Do The Real Experts Say?

 

"When historians come to write about this period, they will single out fluoridation as the single biggest mistake in public policy that we've ever had."

 

- Paul Connett, PhD, Biochemistry

 

"Water fluoridation is the single largest case of scientific fraud, promoted by the government, supported by taxpayer dollars, aided and abetted by the ADA and the AMA, in the history of the planet."

 

- David Kennedy, DDS President International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology

 

"Sodium fluoride is a registered rat poison and roach poison. It has been a protected pollutant for a very long time."

 

- William Hirzy, PhD President of the Union of Professional Employees of the EPA

 

"sodium fluoride is a very toxic chemical, acting as an enzyme poison, direct irritant and calcium inactivator ... .It reacts with growing tooth enamel and with bones to produce irreversible damage."

 

- Granville Knight, MD president of the American Academy of Nutrition

Congressional Record, 31 July 56

 

"I am appalled at the prospect of using water as a vehicle for drugs. Fluoride is a corrosive poison that will produce serious effects on a long range basis. Any attempt to use water this way is deplorable."

 

- Charles Gordon Heyd, MD, president, AMA

 

"no physician in his right mind would hand to his patient a bottled filled with a dangerous drug with instructions to take as much or as little of it as he wished ... And yet, the Public Health Service is engaged upon a widespread propaganda program to insist that communities do exactly that ... The purpose of administering fluoride is not to render the water supply pure and potable but to contaminate it with a dangerous, toxic drug for the purpose of administering mass medication to the consumer, without regard to age or physical condition."

 

- L. Alesen, MD, president of the California Medical Association

Robotry, p14

 

"Fluoridation is the greatest fraud that has ever been perpetrated and it has been perpetrated on more people than any other fraud has."

 

- Albert Schatz, PhD Nobel Laureate for discovering streptomycin

quoted in Sutton's Fluoridation:The Greatest Fraud

 

"More people have died in the last 30 years from cancer connected with fluoridation than all the military deaths in the entire history of the United States."

 

- Dean Burk, PhD National Cancer Institute -- Fluoridation:A Burning Controversy

 

"Fluoridation is the greatest case of scientific fraud of this century, if not of all time."

- EPA scientist, Dr. Robert Carton (Downey, 2 May 99)

 

Why do we never hear any of this? Because the corps control the US media?

 

Only about 2% of the population of Europe is subjected to fluoridated water.

 

If fluoridation is as safe and effective as the American Dental Association says it is, why don't other countries do it?

 

Locked In

 

Three reasons why we're so far down the road of toxic fluoridation, it's hard to come back:

 

1. To reverse the policy of fluoridation now would be for the ADA, the EPA, the FDA, and the USPHS, Congress, and all the municipal water polluters in the US to admit that they made a mistake. Not a good move for re-election.

 

2.To criticize fluoridation as a policy would challenge the billions of tons of fluoride being released into the air and water by the nuclear, aluminum, phosphate, steel, glass, cement, and petrochemical industries.

 

3. If fluoridation stopped, a multi-billion dollar gravy train of research grants, propaganda contracts, and sweetheart arrangements between government and industry would vaporize overnight.

 

Fluoridation is a totally new idea, from a Constitutional point of view. It's nothing like adding chlorine. Although chlorine has toxic side effects, it actually does something beneficial to the water - chlorine purifies the water. Fluoride does no such thing. Fluoride is a drug, a medication that supposedly has beneficial effects for a small percentage of the population.

 

"Buy a filter or be a filter." but cheap filters don't filter chlorine or fluoride....But to really get the resistant biologicals, the fluoride, heavy metals, and other contaminants, the customer may consider one of the high-end drinking water filters. These cost between two and four hundred dollars and come in models for both over and under the sink.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dr_Flush_Amazing]

Debate fodder

[JayB]

"A little Learning is a dang'rous Thing;

Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring:

There shallow Draughts intoxicate the Brain,

And drinking largely sobers us again."

[Peter_Puget]

.

 

The most thorough explanation of the origin, action, diseases, and politics of fluoride was presented in a book called Fluoride the Aging Factor by John Yiamouyiannis, PhD.

 

 

 

At first I thought you were serious and then I realized you were a comic genius! link The good Doctor also opposed vaccines.

Edited January 8, 2007 by Peter_Puget

[ivan]

Nothing like the government stepping in to make up for bad parenting.

i'll take The Man not flouridating my water in exchange for leaving my Magic Herbs alone

[Peter_Puget]

OK, first of all, 'flouridation' has a 'u'.

 

It's fluoridation.

[kevbone]

The good Doctor also opposed vaccines.

 

I liked the vaccine thread better.

[ivan]

OK, first of all, 'flouridation' has a 'u'.

 

It's fluoridation.

you obviously don't know how i sound when i speak

[Buckaroo]

""At first I thought you were serious and then I realized you were a comic genius! link The good Doctor also opposed vaccines.""

 

As well he should, vaccines have been corrupted, especially in the US by some of the very same people that gave us flouride.

 

Why do you need thimerosal (mercury) in your vaccine? Gotta start those tots off right, all aboard the cancer train.

[tvashtarkatena]

I'm for adding vaccines to the water supply.

[JayB]

OK, first of all, 'flouridation' has a 'u'.

 

It's fluoridation.

 

Perhaps he was speaking - "injest."

 

It's okay Tvash, everyone who wields pedantry's double-edged sword gets a paper-cut now and then.

[rob]

Why do you need thimerosal (mercury) in your vaccine?

 

From the FDA's website:

 

Since 2001, all vaccines manufactured for the U.S. market and routinely recommended for children < 6 years of age have contained no thimerosal or only trace amounts (< 1 microgram of mercury per dose remaining from the manufacturing process), with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine. In addition, all of the routinely recommended vaccines that had been previously manufactured with thimerosal as a preservative (some formulations of DTaP, Haemophilus influenzae b conjugate (Hib), and hepatitis B vaccines) had reached the end of their shelf life by January 2003.

[tvashtarkatena]

OK, first of all, 'flouridation' has a 'u'.

 

It's fluoridation.

 

Perhaps he was speaking - "injest."

 

It's okay Tvash, everyone who wields pedantry's double-edged sword gets a paper-cut now and then.

 

It is the law of Spray: as we give, so shall we receive. We can all use a dose of huomility in our water now and then.

 

Perhaps a vaccine for spelling errors will soon be discovered.

Edited January 8, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[Buckaroo]

"Since 2001"

and how long have we known mercury is toxic? So why did it take so long to get the thimerosol out?

 

"with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine."

 

so THAT'S why they push flu vaccines every year on the "news", gotta get that mercury dose in there somehow cuz people are waking up to amalgam fillings ehh?

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Nothing like the government stepping in to make up for bad parenting.

i'll take The Man not flouridating my water in exchange for leaving my Magic Herbs alone

 

Come on, man. It's spelled 'floridating'.

[Dr_Flush_Amazing]

Paracelsus, the father of toxicology states-- "Everything is poison, there is poison in everything. Only the dose makes a thing not a poison".

 

I vaguely remember a Shakespeare quote with the same message that perhaps JayB can remember? Something about water? R&J I think?

[tvashtarkatena]

I'm for floridating the water supply of Mercury.

[Buckaroo]

* conduct no research

* avoid the real issues when possible

* never engage in any debate where actual research data will be used

* attack the opponent, not the issue

* persuade; do not inform

* use emotional phrases to distract people from the real issues

* when confronted, change the subject

* cover up the real studies; never refer to them

* Keep repeating unfounded falsehoods about the safety and effectiveness of proven poisons

* Remind people how many decades fluoridation has been going on

* Favor mandatory fluoridation legislation, removing all opportunity for free discussion when possible

* Try to keep all opposing evidence from being seen or considered by any policy-making agency

* Omit pertinent data from actual studies

* Above all, never stop repeating the same falsehoods, over and over.

 

 

 

[kevbone]

THAT'S why they push flu vaccines every year

 

Why is that? Maybe because the companies that make the vaccine will make millions on it. Or do they give it out for the good of the people?