best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

[kevbone]

Anyone notice how there are two conversations going on, on this thread. There’s the almost serious topic going about sailing and horse riding and how they are dangerous. Then there is a Fucking newbie Seahawkmydick trying to fit in and have everyone love and cherish him. Or should I say her?

[Seahawks]

no I knew all along just wanted to make sure you knew your Mom was calling you.

[Seahawks]

Anyone notice how there are two conversations going on, on this thread. There’s the almost serious topic going about sailing and horse riding and how they are dangerous. Then there is a Fucking newbie Seahawkmydick trying to fit in and have everyone love and cherish him. Or should I say her?

 

Kevbone is jealous he wants to be riding that horse.

[kevbone]

no I knew all along just wanted to make sure you knew your Mom was calling you.

 

hey Seafawk. Look under your name. What does it say? I think it says clueless wit. Thats it!

[DirtyHarry]

I am famished. Chicken wings! CHICKEN WINGS!!!

[W]

 

Now, obviously, the people this happened to had no idea it could happen to them, or it wouldn't have happened.

 

Molly,

 

While working on Mt. Rainier 11 years ago, two friends who were climbing rangers died on a SAR. I was hired to replace them and finish out the season. My first day on the job, I talked with all the climbers at the high camp. Every one of them was very much aware of the accident a week earlier, and that the route conditions were treacherous. Every one. My second day, I watched three of the same people I spoke with the day before, who appeared exceedingly cognicent of the conditions, take a 2500 foot, cartwheeling fall down the route. Two died, one barely survived. I've had numerous friends die climbing in the years since, most recently last spring in Alaska. Each and every of them were more than aware of the risks of this life and in climbing.

 

So your patently false and ill informed judgments are not appreciated in the slightest and are amazingly disrespectful.

 

 

[Clavote]

 

When these bad situations happen, it's too late to figure out what to do. You have to know before they happen what to do.

 

When you're car is skidding sideways out of control, are you actively analyzing the situation? Or are you acting instinctively and going with the flow? Are you actions to avoid a horrific crash based on a premade "plan"?

 

Your statement is a fear based approach, you strive to control the uncontrollable. Your mindset preparation leaves no room whatsoever for encountering a foreign situation- you can plan all you want for every contingincy- so what happens if the forecast calls for 4 days of sun and the storm of the century arrives on day 2? Lay down and die? Or learn as you go?

 

Yes, sliding on ice and snow in a car is a great example. You can be told which way to turn the wheel to get out of that kind of a skid way in advance of it ever happening. And the direction is counter intuitive.

 

I realize absolutely there is a lot of learn as you go and just plain dumb luck in these kinds of sports. But, this particular sport is so unforgiving of any tiny mistake that I think it requires a lot more education and training than is commonly portrayed.

 

Let me ask you this: if these folks had hired a mountain guide, would he have allowed them to leave when they did, carrying the supplies they carried? Maybe so, but then he would have been able to find the pearly gates on a dark night in a whiteout, too.

 

Someone very familiar with that mountain would have had an extra backup system by definition.

 

Molly,

 

if I hired a guide, I would make that dude carry all my shit because it would weigh a ton (extra clothes, food and water for 30 days...water purifier, more food, a TV and stereo in case of being in a cave for extended periods. A cell phone, a MLU a PLB, and some waterproof matches.)

 

And if the weather was shitty I would break out my Petzl Guide Whip so I could giddy up on his ass and make it to the summit in time for cocoa and marshmellows over the campfire we will make with the firewood my guide carried up.

 

My guide is my backup system. He also has a backup and a backup-backup (compass/map and GPS). If all else fails, we will just use our paragliders and soar off the summit and land at the lodge for some irish coffee.

 

As to why climbers climb with strangers. Well, it's hard to find people to climb with. You do have to check them out and feel comfortable with their abilities. That is a variable. However, most climbers can asses each other out pretty quickly.

 

Maybe what you also need to know is that climbing is a risk taking/evaluating sport. You make decisions on what you are taking/doing based on your reading of all the available data and making a risk assesment that is comfortable to you.

[Molly1]

 

Now, obviously, the people this happened to had no idea it could happen to them, or it wouldn't have happened.

 

Molly,

 

While working on Mt. Rainier 11 years ago, two friends who were climbing rangers died on a SAR. I was hired to replace them and finish out the season. My first day on the job, I talked with all the climbers at the high camp. Every one of them was very much aware of the accident a week earlier, and that the route conditions were treacherous. Every one. My second day, I watched three of the same people I spoke with the day before, who appeared exceedingly cognicent of the conditions, take a 2500 foot, cartwheeling fall down the route. Two died, one barely survived. I've had numerous friends die climbing in the years since, most recently last spring in Alaska. Each and every of them were more than aware of the risks of this life and in climbing.

 

So your patently false and ill informed judgments are not appreciated in the slightest and are amazingly disrespectful.

 

 

wow. I don't know what to say about that. The people who were falling in the reports I read were just random climbers, not experts. And, the reports seem to indicate the reason for the fall was the equivalent of 'pilot error.' So, I'm not trying to be disrepectful.

 

I had no idea the SAR people could be at that kind of risk that so many of them could die.

[kevbone]

 

I had no idea the SAR people could be at that kind of risk that so many of them could die.

 

 

 

Have an idea. Mountains kill all, not just the inexperienced.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cindy66]

 

When these bad situations happen, it's too late to figure out what to do. You have to know before they happen what to do.

 

When you're car is skidding sideways out of control, are you actively analyzing the situation? Or are you acting instinctively and going with the flow? Are you actions to avoid a horrific crash based on a premade "plan"?

 

Your statement is a fear based approach, you strive to control the uncontrollable. Your mindset preparation leaves no room whatsoever for encountering a foreign situation- you can plan all you want for every contingincy- so what happens if the forecast calls for 4 days of sun and the storm of the century arrives on day 2? Lay down and die? Or learn as you go?

 

Yes, sliding on ice and snow in a car is a great example. You can be told which way to turn the wheel to get out of that kind of a skid way in advance of it ever happening. And the direction is counter intuitive.

 

I realize absolutely there is a lot of learn as you go and just plain dumb luck in these kinds of sports. But, this particular sport is so unforgiving of any tiny mistake that I think it requires a lot more education and training than is commonly portrayed.

 

Let me ask you this: if these folks had hired a mountain guide, would he have allowed them to leave when they did, carrying the supplies they carried? Maybe so, but then he would have been able to find the pearly gates on a dark night in a whiteout, too.

 

Someone very familiar with that mountain would have had an extra backup system by definition.

 

 

oh yes, i am going to ascend mt.hood with a back up system,,,,,i am going to bring two packs with me ,next time, so when if i do fall i am happy i have that extra pack , which is what brought me down in the first place,but im going to have a note in my pocket that i did bring a back up system!!!!!!!!!wow, wonder why we havent thought of that before guys?

[cindy66]

 

When these bad situations happen, it's too late to figure out what to do. You have to know before they happen what to do.

 

When you're car is skidding sideways out of control, are you actively analyzing the situation? Or are you acting instinctively and going with the flow? Are you actions to avoid a horrific crash based on a premade "plan"?

 

Your statement is a fear based approach, you strive to control the uncontrollable. Your mindset preparation leaves no room whatsoever for encountering a foreign situation- you can plan all you want for every contingincy- so what happens if the forecast calls for 4 days of sun and the storm of the century arrives on day 2? Lay down and die? Or learn as you go?

 

Yes, sliding on ice and snow in a car is a great example. You can be told which way to turn the wheel to get out of that kind of a skid way in advance of it ever happening. And the direction is counter intuitive.

 

I realize absolutely there is a lot of learn as you go and just plain dumb luck in these kinds of sports. But, this particular sport is so unforgiving of any tiny mistake that I think it requires a lot more education and training than is commonly portrayed.

 

Let me ask you this: if these folks had hired a mountain guide, would he have allowed them to leave when they did, carrying the supplies they carried? Maybe so, but then he would have been able to find the pearly gates on a dark night in a whiteout, too.

 

Someone very familiar with that mountain would have had an extra backup system by definition.

 

Molly,

 

if I hired a guide, I would make that dude carry all my shit because it would weigh a ton (extra clothes, food and water for 30 days...water purifier, more food, a TV and stereo in case of being in a cave for extended periods. A cell phone, a MLU a PLB, and some waterproof matches.)

 

And if the weather was shitty I would break out my Petzl Guide Whip so I could giddy up on his ass and make it to the summit in time for cocoa and marshmellows over the campfire we will make with the firewood my guide carried up.

 

My guide is my backup system. He also has a backup and a backup-backup (compass/map and GPS). If all else fails, we will just use our paragliders and soar off the summit and land at the lodge for some irish coffee.

 

As to why climbers climb with strangers. Well, it's hard to find people to climb with. You do have to check them out and feel comfortable with their abilities. That is a variable. However, most climbers can asses each other out pretty quickly.

 

Maybe what you also need to know is that climbing is a risk taking/evaluating sport. You make decisions on what you are taking/doing based on your reading of all the available data and making a risk assesment that is comfortable to you.

 

 

 

dude , i am rolling in the floor on this one still!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To good to be true,,,,giddy up!!!!!!!!!

[Seahawks]

 

When these bad situations happen, it's too late to figure out what to do. You have to know before they happen what to do.

 

When you're car is skidding sideways out of control, are you actively analyzing the situation? Or are you acting instinctively and going with the flow? Are you actions to avoid a horrific crash based on a premade "plan"?

 

Your statement is a fear based approach, you strive to control the uncontrollable. Your mindset preparation leaves no room whatsoever for encountering a foreign situation- you can plan all you want for every contingincy- so what happens if the forecast calls for 4 days of sun and the storm of the century arrives on day 2? Lay down and die? Or learn as you go?

 

Yes, sliding on ice and snow in a car is a great example. You can be told which way to turn the wheel to get out of that kind of a skid way in advance of it ever happening. And the direction is counter intuitive.

 

I realize absolutely there is a lot of learn as you go and just plain dumb luck in these kinds of sports. But, this particular sport is so unforgiving of any tiny mistake that I think it requires a lot more education and training than is commonly portrayed.

 

Let me ask you this: if these folks had hired a mountain guide, would he have allowed them to leave when they did, carrying the supplies they carried? Maybe so, but then he would have been able to find the pearly gates on a dark night in a whiteout, too.

 

Someone very familiar with that mountain would have had an extra backup system by definition.

 

Molly,

 

if I hired a guide, I would make that dude carry all my shit because it would weigh a ton (extra clothes, food and water for 30 days...water purifier, more food, a TV and stereo in case of being in a cave for extended periods. A cell phone, a MLU a PLB, and some waterproof matches.)

 

And if the weather was shitty I would break out my Petzl Guide Whip so I could giddy up on his ass and make it to the summit in time for cocoa and marshmellows over the campfire we will make with the firewood my guide carried up.

 

My guide is my backup system. He also has a backup and a backup-backup (compass/map and GPS). If all else fails, we will just use our paragliders and soar off the summit and land at the lodge for some irish coffee.

 

As to why climbers climb with strangers. Well, it's hard to find people to climb with. You do have to check them out and feel comfortable with their abilities. That is a variable. However, most climbers can asses each other out pretty quickly.

 

Maybe what you also need to know is that climbing is a risk taking/evaluating sport. You make decisions on what you are taking/doing based on your reading of all the available data and making a risk assesment that is comfortable to you.

 

 

 

dude , i am rolling in the floor on this one still!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To good to be true,,,,giddy up!!!!!!!!!

 

You guys are cruel leave her alone.

[Phil Jones]

Well, all I can say is that this search for the lost climbers who neglected to carry an MLU with them was quite entertaining from a news hound standpoint.

 

When will the next mountain tragedy drama occur and who will star in it?

 

 

[Seahawks]

Well, all I can say is that this search for the lost climbers who neglected to carry an MLU with them was quite entertaining from a news hound standpoint.

 

When will the next mountain tragedy drama occur and who will star in it?

 

 

A few of the cocky people in here is my guess.

[Dechristo]

stfu, n00bs

 

 

 

edit: to include plural

Edited December 27, 2006 by Dechristo

[cindy66]

Miss molly,,,,,,on a nicer and much sweeter note--------- I do have a poem that i will send you of why i climb=if you are interested PM me with your email add.i would be more than happy to send it to you. it may provide you with some insight......

 

 

 

Seahawks= i may be a little cocky "people" but most certainly am not a clueless TWIT

[StevenSeagal]

Well, all I can say is that this search for the lost climbers who neglected to carry an MLU with them was quite entertaining from a news hound standpoint.

 

When will the next mountain tragedy drama occur and who will star in it?

 

 

A few of the cocky people in here is my guess.

 

 

Maybe so; But the difference is, many of the people here will also be there to help them, while pieces of shit like you will be there to say, "told you so", and pieces of shit like Phil will be there to be "entertained".

[Seahawks]

Miss molly,,,,,,on a nicer and much sweeter note--------- I do have a poem that i will send you of why i climb=if you are interested PM me with your email add.i would be more than happy to send it to you. it may provide you with some insight......

 

 

 

Seahawks= i may be a little cocky "people" but most certainly am not a clueless TWIT

 

Just a clueless Newbie

[Clavote]

 

Now, obviously, the people this happened to had no idea it could happen to them, or it wouldn't have happened.

 

Molly,

 

While working on Mt. Rainier 11 years ago, two friends who were climbing rangers died on a SAR. I was hired to replace them and finish out the season. My first day on the job, I talked with all the climbers at the high camp. Every one of them was very much aware of the accident a week earlier, and that the route conditions were treacherous. Every one. My second day, I watched three of the same people I spoke with the day before, who appeared exceedingly cognicent of the conditions, take a 2500 foot, cartwheeling fall down the route. Two died, one barely survived. I've had numerous friends die climbing in the years since, most recently last spring in Alaska. Each and every of them were more than aware of the risks of this life and in climbing.

 

So your patently false and ill informed judgments are not appreciated in the slightest and are amazingly disrespectful.

 

 

wow. I don't know what to say about that. The people who were falling in the reports I read were just random climbers, not experts. And, the reports seem to indicate the reason for the fall was the equivalent of 'pilot error.' So, I'm not trying to be disrepectful.

 

I had no idea the SAR people could be at that kind of risk that so many of them could die.

 

 

Hey Ghoul,

 

there is no death hirearchy. Kevbone speaks the truth.

 

It's like watching somoene speak out loud to themselves as a way to figure it out.

 

I'm sure glad natural selection endowed me with the ability to think silently. That way the lion does not find me when I am obsessing ghoulishly about the death of others at the watering hole earlier today...Was it "pilot error" when they got too close to the edge without checking for predators?

 

W is also giving you a clue about what you sound like and how people are reacting to you. Be open minded and listen to outside suggestions.

 

Maybe now you can actually try asking questions without first throwing out your flawed logic.

 

And don't be an asswipe by saying

"wow. I don't know what to say about that."

W just told you something pretty significant and the lesson is lost on you because you just return back to what you read. Take it as fact, people with excellent skills can also get hurt or killed. There is no way you can "prepare" for all contingencies but you hope that your abilities to improvise and think will help. Sometimes, there is nothing you can do.

 

I've been on Mt. Hood. It's pretty steep. I've never been on a clisdale, but I read that they bite and you could fall and hit your head and die. Would a guide let me ride without a helmet and a back-up airbag? It's all the same to me. Hell if my sailboat starts to take on water, I'll call the USCG, deploy the EPRIB and launch my back-up sailboat. Hell, sailing is just as dangerous as climbing, so much so that I can state here that it's the same thing...and I would have done things differently on Hood because of my sailing and horsey experience. I am smarter and would have lived! Yes, a horse saved me.

 

 

[Weekend_Climberz]

Did something happen on Mt. Hood that required speculation? Did I miss something?

[Molly1]

Here are some samples of analysis of accidents. You will see that they are most often caused by multiple factors combining to a seemingly inevitable event, climber error, poor judgment, and failure to have backup systems.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Although no rescue was required, this type of incident is becoming more common with the increase in popularity of ice climbing. Underestimating the time required to complete the climb, not retreating, having inadequate equipment, and fatigue all combined to result in a potentially serious incident. "(Source: Parks Canada Warden Service)

 

 

 

"Although the climber was experienced, he did not research the mountain adequately, and so became stymied when bad weather prevented him from seeing where to go. Had he known about the A-A Col descent route, or the correct line of the standard route, he might have gotten down on his own and in good time, even in bad weather. In any case, soloing on a glacier is hazardous. Many people have fallen into deep crevasses on Mount Athabasca. "(Source: Parks Canada Warden Service)

 

 

 

"Hoshino overextended himself. His climbing partners failed to recognize the situation and react to it. Instead they elected to go to the summit. They were also improperly prepared to bivouac, which caused Hoshino to become hypothermic while waiting for a rescue." (Source: Kevin Moore, Mountaineering Ranger)

 

http://www.americanalpineclub.org/pages/page/73#u7

 

[Seahawks]

Well, all I can say is that this search for the lost climbers who neglected to carry an MLU with them was quite entertaining from a news hound standpoint.

 

When will the next mountain tragedy drama occur and who will star in it?

 

 

A few of the cocky people in here is my guess.

 

 

Maybe so; But the difference is, many of the people here will also be there to help them, while pieces of shit like you will be there to say, "told you so", and pieces of shit like Phil will be there to be "entertained".

 

Like to know when i said anything close to "I told you so" - brainless Seagal idiot. Only thing I ever said is get your dam phone out before its too late.

[DirtyHarry]

Well, all I can say is that this search for the lost climbers who neglected to carry an MLU with them was quite entertaining from a news hound standpoint.

 

When will the next mountain tragedy drama occur and who will star in it?

 

 

For the weight of an MLU, you could easily carry half a fifth of Jamison's 12 yr. And, really, what's more important than that?

[enelson]

Miss molly,,,,,,on a nicer and much sweeter note--------- I do have a poem that i will send you of why i climb=if you are interested PM me with your email add.i would be more than happy to send it to you. it may provide you with some insight......

 

 

 

Seahawks= i may be a little cocky "people" but most certainly am not a clueless TWIT

 

 

Just a clueless Newbie

 

no, twit is pretty accurate. just leave. i hearby request everyone ignore this guy so he will leave and be ready to go back to middle school next week with his mamma jokes.

 

 

edited for quoting mess up

Edited December 27, 2006 by enelson

[DirtyHarry]

Only thing I ever said is get your dam phone out before its too late.

 

 

Hello. I just called to say "I love you." sickie