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About Molly1

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  1. best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

    Just came back to pay my tribute to a few good men, here, and, of course, to Sam Coleridge. Thanks for reminding me. But thou, my babe ! shalt wander like a breeze By lakes and sandy shores, beneath the crags Of ancient mountain, and beneath the clouds, Which image in their bulk both lakes and shores And mountain crags : so shalt thou see and hear The lovely shapes and sounds intelligible Of that eternal language, which thy God Utters, who from eternity doth teach Himself in all, and all things in himself. Great universal Teacher ! he shall mould Thy spirit, and by giving make it ask. Therefore all seasons shall be sweet to thee, Whether the summer clothe the general earth With greenness, or the redbreast sit and sing Betwixt the tufts of snow on the bare branch Of mossy apple-tree, while the nigh thatch Smokes in the sun-thaw ; whether the eave-drops fall Heard only in the trances of the blast, Or if the secret ministry of frost Shall hang them up in silent icicles, Quietly shining to the quiet Moon.
  2. best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

    See y'all some other day!
  3. best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

    God has his way of bringing everyone to humility, eventually. So I've learned once again on this thread not to worry about the welfare of others, especially those who would just as soon spit at you as look at you. Therefore, keep on keeping on, let sin increase and let grace increase, because sooner or later, no matter how arrogant, you will meet the rock who breaks you. And, only then, can he start his work.
  4. best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

    They left Friday morning for a day climb and no call came in until Sunday afternoon. They were not prepared or expecting to spend that much time up there. So why did the call come in so late? It's a question worth asking.
  5. best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

    Here are some samples of analysis of accidents. You will see that they are most often caused by multiple factors combining to a seemingly inevitable event, climber error, poor judgment, and failure to have backup systems. "Although no rescue was required, this type of incident is becoming more common with the increase in popularity of ice climbing. Underestimating the time required to complete the climb, not retreating, having inadequate equipment, and fatigue all combined to result in a potentially serious incident. "(Source: Parks Canada Warden Service) "Although the climber was experienced, he did not research the mountain adequately, and so became stymied when bad weather prevented him from seeing where to go. Had he known about the A-A Col descent route, or the correct line of the standard route, he might have gotten down on his own and in good time, even in bad weather. In any case, soloing on a glacier is hazardous. Many people have fallen into deep crevasses on Mount Athabasca. "(Source: Parks Canada Warden Service) "Hoshino overextended himself. His climbing partners failed to recognize the situation and react to it. Instead they elected to go to the summit. They were also improperly prepared to bivouac, which caused Hoshino to become hypothermic while waiting for a rescue." (Source: Kevin Moore, Mountaineering Ranger) http://www.americanalpineclub.org/pages/page/73#u7
  6. best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

    Molly, While working on Mt. Rainier 11 years ago, two friends who were climbing rangers died on a SAR. I was hired to replace them and finish out the season. My first day on the job, I talked with all the climbers at the high camp. Every one of them was very much aware of the accident a week earlier, and that the route conditions were treacherous. Every one. My second day, I watched three of the same people I spoke with the day before, who appeared exceedingly cognicent of the conditions, take a 2500 foot, cartwheeling fall down the route. Two died, one barely survived. I've had numerous friends die climbing in the years since, most recently last spring in Alaska. Each and every of them were more than aware of the risks of this life and in climbing. So your patently false and ill informed judgments are not appreciated in the slightest and are amazingly disrespectful. wow. I don't know what to say about that. The people who were falling in the reports I read were just random climbers, not experts. And, the reports seem to indicate the reason for the fall was the equivalent of 'pilot error.' So, I'm not trying to be disrepectful. I had no idea the SAR people could be at that kind of risk that so many of them could die.
  7. best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

    If I was an informed person, I wouldn't need to be here asking questions. You said my post about slipping and falling off the top was funny. But, this actually happened to more than one person in the reports I was reading. One misguided slip, because you walk on a particular place off the trail, or you are not using your ice axe, or you have on crampons that are balling up, or you misjudge the hardness or softness of the snow, and boom--you're dead. That's not funny at all. That is a totally unforgiving situation that is a matter of life or death. Now, obviously, the people this happened to had no idea it could happen to them, or it wouldn't have happened.
  8. best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

    When you're car is skidding sideways out of control, are you actively analyzing the situation? Or are you acting instinctively and going with the flow? Are you actions to avoid a horrific crash based on a premade "plan"? Your statement is a fear based approach, you strive to control the uncontrollable. Your mindset preparation leaves no room whatsoever for encountering a foreign situation- you can plan all you want for every contingincy- so what happens if the forecast calls for 4 days of sun and the storm of the century arrives on day 2? Lay down and die? Or learn as you go? Yes, sliding on ice and snow in a car is a great example. You can be told which way to turn the wheel to get out of that kind of a skid way in advance of it ever happening. And the direction is counter intuitive. I realize absolutely there is a lot of learn as you go and just plain dumb luck in these kinds of sports. But, this particular sport is so unforgiving of any tiny mistake that I think it requires a lot more education and training than is commonly portrayed. Let me ask you this: if these folks had hired a mountain guide, would he have allowed them to leave when they did, carrying the supplies they carried? Maybe so, but then he would have been able to find the pearly gates on a dark night in a whiteout, too. Someone very familiar with that mountain would have had an extra backup system by definition.
  9. best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

    Another thing I don't understand is why you would ever climb a difficult mountain with a partner that you don't really know and have never climbed with before. Seems to me that a climbing partner would be as important to your safety as any piece of knowledge or equipment you could own. From my reading here, people just seem to be willing to go up a mountain with total strangers. Just another warm body. As if it made no difference.
  10. best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

    Why don't you just tell me what I'm missing about the situation, then? I came here to be educated, not insulted. The powers that be put 'ghoul' under my name, because no one is allowed to question anything a climber does here, I guess. But, all of it is open to question, and it will be questioned by people who know a lot more than I do. Because I'm not the only one interested in safety in this world.
  11. best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

    I dont think so. well you might think so if you had ever been on a sailboat in fog and foul weather and navigating by dead reckoning. Or if you had ever been on a horse which is bolting from an attack dog. When these bad situations happen, it's too late to figure out what to do. You have to know before they happen what to do.
  12. best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

    Yes, I think you're right. People get cold and tired, and then things happen. That's why preparation and planning are so important, I would say. You want to have the decision tree already in place so the answer to a question is always 'intuitive.' And, exceeding your limits in a dangerous environment can turn deadly, right? No I don't climb. I hike and ski and ride horses and sail. But the principles are all the same.
  13. best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

    Instinctual perception- grounded in fact. Neither quantifiable nor proprietary to anyone. It is within reach for everyone. Analysis is a tool of the ego. What is more arrogant than attempting to define the unknowable? But, some things are knowable. The weather coming in, for one. The small window of good weather they allowed themselves for another. The small window to survive the bad weather if necessary for another. The lack of gps systems, etc, to navigate in a whiteout, or to provide a location for authorities. Are these things intuitive? Or just common sense? I noticed that the smaller cave had a sleeping bag of sorts in it, left behind. Whereas the bigger cave had no sleeping bag. Apparently.
  14. best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

    What does it have to do with, then? Is intuition something you are born with and that cannot be analyzed or measured? I think when people make decisions a lot of things come into play that they are not even aware of. It could be something as simple as arrogance, as one said, or an unwillingless to look the fool. But, I'm never afraid to look foolish.
  15. best of cc.com Mt. Hood events speculation

    "intuition" ..now that's an interesting word. What is 'intuition'? Isn't it just a good combination of skill, knowledge, and intelligence? Speaking of 'intuition', I noticed that these climbers left behind 3 notes or so relating to their planned route and back up route. Is that normal? Or was it 'intuition'?