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wondering... take it easy... just a question


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i'll ask again since no one can chime in...


watching the news conference? just wondering why SAR would not dig in/camp/bivy where they are on the south side. weather report looks good for tomorrow - nice warm night in a well constructed tent site/snow cave would save a bunch of redux tomorrow... thoughts?


Utah - I missed the news conference, - my thoughts to try and toss a possible answer or 2 since you've asked it twice. There is a lot of idle speculation going on around here, and I hate to add to it, but please realise that what follows is my idle uninformed speculation only. ONLY.


Here ----------->


Most likely they intentionally did not carry and have extra tents, stoves, food, and sleeping bags. Carrying that extra weight is a burdon in deep (like they just had deposited up there) snow. The goal is to cover as much territory as possible, not wallow around all day with heavy packs on. Furthermore digging a snow cave would take time and then still not be as comfortable as laying a bag down in the day lodge in the warmth of the facility. When you finish a day trashing through deep snow, your muscles are trashed and you need good rest and nutrition. Digging a snow cave when you are exuasted sucks. It could be that some of the groups are doing some camping to hit the furthest reaches of the other side better, we don't know and won't until you talk to someone who was there.


2nd) A snow cat will get you up anywhere you want lower down on the south side pretty quickly.


3rd) Nice to touch base as a group, explore ideas, discuss where everybody has been and what their thoughts are - and discuss and assign the next days objectives while bringing the group up to speed and reaffirming safety goals.


End of idle uninformed speculation

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If they'd had an MLU/PLB, they could have all stayed in one snow cave and been rescued more quickly. Duh.



Not really, because for the MLU some one has to report that a party is missing, otherwise no one knows anything... So in the case of an injured climber hunkered down in a cave/bivy they have to send someone to activate SAR/Rescue to the fact that there is a problem up on the Mtn...


This was the case when my father slipped and fell to his death on Mt. Ritter in the sierras. his climbing partner did not know how badly he was injured, or for that matter alive, and packed a speed pack and summoned help... (My father fell into a moat and was not accessible by one person alone)... He did the right thing in that case, summon help. A MLU (not applicable here, MLU is for Mt. Hood only) and cell phones have no reception in this case... Hiking (or running in my fathers case) out is the only choice...


There is no doubt in my mind that the group in question did all the right things in the right situation. One cannot predict or account 100% for what the weather is going to do, and in their situation, they got caught in a storm, a PLB or MLU cant help you there.


And as a matter of fact, even if they had stayed together, and activated a MLU or PLB, they would most likely still be hunkered down in a bivy, since SAR is unable to get to where they are... Still...


Mr. jones, do you have a EPIRB or PLB on your boat at all times when you go out? Even just for a trip that is close to shore? How many boaters do?

I would gather that these climbers where and are ten times more prepared for what they are doing and what an epic this has become for them, and is too bad that there are people that want to monday morning quarterback situations when they themselves have absolutely no idea what this sport is all about. Thats fine and that is your right, but we think you suck for that, and thats our right, and this is a climbing web site, so don't expect people here to consider your "quarterbacking" with nice comments.

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What you guys don't seem to understand is that the equipment that these guys brought with them on the climb is the climbing equivalent of a life-jacket. No one who knows anything about mountaineering, and the equipment that's appropriate and necessary for a climb of this nature has found fault with their planning or execution, so one would think this would prompt you to question the assumptions and perspective that you've brought to this discussion.


Moreover, neither the SAR crews, nor the air-crews, nor the climber's families have voiced the critiques that you are presenting on their behalf, so one wonders why you've presumed to speak for them, and have appropriated the risks that you are not taking, and the grief and worry that you are not bearing, to advance your arguments here.



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An MLB is only a beacon. Someone still has to alert the authorities. I doubt Brian and Nikko would have just waited in the snow cave when they obviously believed they could make a run for help.


By the way, do you have an PLB on your boat?


(Edited for typo.)

Edited by zl27
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I have a question for those of you with SAR experience. What gear/supplies do you take on a SAR mission (beyond your norm)? Is there anything you normally take that you leave behind?


Edit: Serious question, truly curious.

Edited by zl27
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Well, all I can say is if any of the search and rescue people get killed looking for these guys, there'll be plenty of public outrage about the failure to carry an MLU.


I've forwarded a link to this thread to Lars Larson and he'll have plenty to say about your cavalier attitudes.


Good night.



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c'mon boys and girls...let's rock out with phil jones making his funky quilts...




go,phil!!! go phil!!!make that nasty quilt!!!


WHOA!!!! That intro reminds me of when I was 16 years old and would take acid with my frinds in the woods!!!



But on a serious note, that "forest coat" looks like it's pretty good, way better than any of that patagucci garbage I bought at the swap meet...

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