scheissami Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Anybody use the Mammut shock absorbing slings? I don't have an exact weight, but they're definitely more compact than Yates'. I'm looking to buy a couple of screamers for this season, and Yates seems to be the most common in use, and cheaper than the Mammut slings. Do you guys find the "tie-off" function of the ice screamers to be beneficial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_Husbands Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 i like the shorter yates screamers tht resemble draws. keeps the harness neat. the tie-off type dangle too much and i never seem to resort to this with the stuff that i climb. just one guy's preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonathanjarrett Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Correct me if I am wrong, but tieing off a screw is rarely a good idea. I think what tests have shown is that the tie off will slide to the end of the screw either due to ice shear or the screw bending and the webbing can easily be cut by the hanger. A) Use a shorter screw if possible B) Or clip the screw if less than five centimeters is left exposed C) Or climb through the spot to thicker ice D) Or place rock gear if possible As for the Mammut screamers, go with the Yates Zipper Screamer. They are the gold standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 People I've climbed with have not used the ice screamers at all. The plain old ones or the zippers are the best. They act like draws and start to rip well below the threshold of what a mediocre screw placement will blow at. At least, that's what I've heard. I still climb with the old adage, "the leader does not fall". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonathanjarrett Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 The other thing to remember is to use wiregates when using any screamer. Although the folks at Yates have said that the newer versions of their screamers don't do it much, it has been widely reported that the breaking of the tacks during impact causes a great deal of gate flutter. This could result in the final impact coming on an open biner. The lower mass of the wire gates reduces the chance of this happening. Then again, the leader must not fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhound Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Correct me if I am wrong, but tieing off a screw is rarely a good idea. I think what tests have shown is that the tie off will slide to the end of the screw either due to ice shear or the screw bending and the webbing can easily be cut by the hanger. A) Use a shorter screw if possible B) Or clip the screw if less than five centimeters is left exposed C) Or climb through the spot to thicker ice D) Or place rock gear if possible As for the Mammut screamers, go with the Yates Zipper Screamer. They are the gold standard. I saw a film the other day about a couple of guys from Whitefish Montana, that have been testing screws of all lengths and in all types of ice. They said to always use screamers and what they found was the best and safest way to take an ice fall is to try and make the fall last as long as possible. For a heavier guy (over 200)the group said they would not fall on ice on anything more then a 9mm. When they tested ting off; Any time they did not tie off the screw it blew, meaning they just clipped the hole instead. If they tied it off and it was in good ice it held. The guy did most of his falls on a 8.1mm ice floss and said it is now at 20+ falls and counting and he weighs over 220. The group explained in thier film that the main factor is not the lenghth of the screw or how it was placed, but the quality of the ice. If it is airated forget about it holding take the time to beat out the chandilers and find consolidated ice in the back. As far as screamers were concerned, he said on the computer models showed that when the load hit 500lbs the screamer engages and carrys the load at 500lbs until it completley rips and then the load heads back up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbb Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 is the video on the internet? in the tieing off, how far out of the ice did they have the hangar? taking 20+ falls on the same rope is going to seriously change his results, i.e. the rope impact force is going to increase with more falls. But people will always bag on an experimental design. It's cool to see some folks out there actually giving these things a test outside of a lab. bonath- The mammut screamers work just as well I'm sure. They are made out of the skinny spectra/dyneema/etc webbing and are probably better suited for remote ice/alpinists/walls where weight matters. For ice cragging, the Yates (made from 1" tubular nylon) will likely have greater longevity. Cheaper is nice too. Personally, I can't stand using the "ice screamers". They are so long that they will catch in your crampons if you let them hang. You can easily clip the biners together for more compact racking, but it is yet another step to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 in the tieing off, how far out of the ice did they have the hangar? Actually, I'm wondering how much screw was in the ice. taking 20+ falls on the same rope is going to seriously change his results, i.e. the rope impact force is going to increase with more falls. But people will always bag on an experimental design. It's cool to see some folks out there actually giving these things a test outside of a lab. Completely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonathanjarrett Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Hey, he asked for a recommendation on Mammut screamers. I offered my opinion based on many many days climbing New England ice with a wide variety of partners. Of course the dyneema slings have their applications. I simply meant that the Yates are generally the screamers that all others are judged against. No harm, no foul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhound Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Hey, he asked for a recommendation on Mammut screamers. I offered my opinion based on many many days climbing New England ice with a wide variety of partners. Of course the dyneema slings have their applications. I simply meant that the Yates are generally the screamers that all others are judged against. No harm, no foul. ???? The mammut screamers just came out this year, and correct me if I am wrong but I don't think that there are any other dyneema screamers on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhound Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 the video is not on the internet. And this was the best expirenment that I have seen. The ie off were for what looked like 19cm BD express screws with about four inchs sticking out. They actually put screws in then got above the screws and let go, they had an computer guy on thier crew that had set up a load tester to see when the force occured and at which level. But the fact that a guy that weighs over 220 has taken over 20 falls on an 8.1mm on various ice conditions and screws is reasuring for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 I put a yates ice screamer to a real world test. I didn't tie off the screw but rather clipped to the hanger, as designed. Everything worked exactly as it was supposed to (except me I suppose) or I wouldn't be typing this now. I like screamers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 As far as screamers were concerned, he said on the computer models showed that when the load hit 500lbs the screamer engages and carrys the load at 500lbs until it completley rips and then the load heads back up again. That is how they are supposed to work, AFAIK. The rope's job is to absorb enrgy when it catches a fall. If that energy is spread out over time, then the peak impact should be lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurthicks Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 the video is not on the internet. how can I get a copy of/see this video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhound Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 They did a sneak peak for us at the Bozeman Ice Festival. they said the full lenghth will be out sometime next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurthicks Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Preview from YouTube. 2guWbO0Z_Hc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I thought Sean's last name was spelled with two S's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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