catbirdseat Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I heard about this on KPLU this afternoon and looked it up on the PI website. Sounds as though the unfortunate man may have wandered up one of the climbers trails, perhaps to Nevermind Wall or Deception Ledge. Hiker Dies: PI Article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scot'teryx Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Man is found dead, apparently after fall P-I STAFF AND NEWS SERVICES NORTH BEND -- A man died in an apparent climbing accident near a well-traveled hiking trail Monday morning. The King County Sheriff's Office received a call at 9:39 a.m. reporting that the unidentified man, believed to be in his early 20s, had been discovered by the other members of his party on the Iron Horse Trail near Exit 38 on Interstate 90. The man became separated from the other three members of his group, and it appeared that he had tried to climb Deception Crags, a rock wall above the trail. His body was found on the trail below, said Deputy Bob Conner, a Sheriff's Office spokesman. Conner said that the two men and two women set out on the trail early Monday and that the man became separated from his group sometime before dawn. Foul play was not suspected, Conner said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Anybody have any more details on this? Any details of the fall, or the individual? Why was a hiker trying his hand solo at Deception wall after getting separated from his group before dawn? Did he think they were up there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tivoli_mike Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 It is very odd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 26, 2006 Author Share Posted September 26, 2006 People make strange decisions sometimes. No one will ever know why he decided to go where he did. These sorts of tragic accidents are all too common and senseless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Holy SHIT!!! CBS, that video is from the base of Rat Face on the left side of Deception (just to the right of Side Dish) Man, what a terrible tragedy. My condolences to all those involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirp Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 (edited) Post deleted by JayB Edited September 27, 2006 by JayB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Holy SHIT!!! CBS, that video is from the base of Rat Face on the left side of Deception (just to the right of Side Dish) Man, what a terrible tragedy. My condolences to all those involved. what video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klimber Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 How sad.... my condolences.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scot'teryx Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Man who died in climb identified P-I STAFF NORTH BEND -- A man who died Monday from a likely climbing accident has been identified. Dustin Van Meter, 22, died from injuries to his head, torso and extremities, King County Medical Examiner's Office said. The Fall City man became separated from the other three members of his party during an early-morning hike on the Iron Horse Trail near Exit 38 on Interstate 90. His body was found on the trail after he had apparently tried to climb a rock wall above the trail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 27, 2006 Author Share Posted September 27, 2006 Darwinism at its finest. That's a shitty thing to say. You take a young guy full of piss and vinegar who's not been outside much and he sees this cool rock wall. He doesn't have the experience or the judgement to tell him to back off. It happens all the time. Research has shown recently that the part of the brain that deals with judgement is the last part to mature, especially in males. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 are we talking about the little bit of rock where that easy kids type route is on the left? like 2 bolts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 (edited) That's a shitty thing to say. You take a young guy full of piss and vinegar who's not been outside much and he sees this cool rock wall. He doesn't have the experience or the judgement to tell him to back off. It happens all the time. Research has shown recently that the part of the brain that deals with judgement is the last part to mature, especially in males. Agreed. Better hope bad karma doesn't come back and bite "chirp" in the . Edited September 28, 2006 by JayB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Research has shown recently that the part of the brain that deals with judgement is the last part to mature, especially in males. source please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 (edited) Research has shown recently that the part of the brain that deals with judgement is the last part to mature, especially in males. source please. males 18-25 or males in general (i'd suspect the former) Edited September 27, 2006 by KaskadskyjKozak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 27, 2006 Author Share Posted September 27, 2006 (edited) I read it in the PI some time ago. You made me go look it up. I think that the age of 16 is traditionally considered to be when the brain's judgement abilities mature, but there have been imaging studies suggesting that it this takes place as late as 25 years. I wish I could find a reference to the one I read. Heavy consumption of alcohol in the teen years can permanently impair judgement. Article Edited September 27, 2006 by catbirdseat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Here is a longish article mentioning basically what CBS has said. A quote: The evidence now is strong that the brain does not cease to mature until the early 20s in those relevant parts that govern impulsivity, judgment, planning for the future, foresight of consequences, and other characteristics that make people morally culpable. Indeed, age 21 or 22 would be closer to the ‘biological’ age of maturity.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I wasn't aware that the Seattle PI was a peer-reviewed neuroscience journal. Thanks for the tip! The ABA newsletter is a bit more informative, though still not a primary source. At least it has references. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 (edited) you guys need a news article to tell you that teen age dudes have bad judgement?? scars and debt should be enough of an indicator btw - sad story...it sux that crap like that happens Edited September 27, 2006 by underworld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 you guys need a news article to tell you that teen age dudes have bad judgement?? scars and debt should be enough of an indicator It's the correlation between "brain development" and "brash behavior" that I have trouble believing. To state a direct cause/effect relationship is not something that many scientists are willing to do with neuroscience>behavior. Especially something as subjective and subtle as "poor decision making". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 True, correlation does not prove causation. However, there is much evidence that the prefrontal cortex deals directly with the ability to make sound judgments, especially in studies of people with prefrontal cortex damage (as in this paper.) If you are looking for a more scholarly paper on the subject, let me point you to this article by Ken C. Winters, Ph.D. of the University of Minnesota Department of Psychiatry. The article focuses on adolescent risks of drug abuse, but mentions the youth/judgement correlation. New scientific discoveries have put a much different perspective on the understanding of adolescent behavior. Research now suggests that the human brain is still maturing during the adolescent years, with changes continuing into the early 20s. The immature brain of the teenage years may not only explain why adolescents are prone to make poor decisions, but it may also place teenagers at an elevated risk to the harmful effects of drugs. If you're really interested in the subject, check out http://scholar.google.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 this is up there pretty high in the "hind sight is 20/20 what was he thinking?" scale. BUT i've seen lots of people solo up that little bit of rock if it's the one i'm thinking of. it probably looked simple enough to him. heck maybe it was and it was just a freaky slip of the foot or hand that lead to the fall. it's sad no matter how/why it happened. we've all done dumbass shit at some point. and you can bet someone talked about it after the fact. smart decision or not, it still sad when someone pays this kind of price. my condolenses to the friends and family of this young man. i'm sure that the reasons don't matter to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 That google scholar link is cool. Thanks. Hadn't seen that before for some reason. Anyway, I apologize for getting this thread off-track. This is quite a puzzling and sad event. I'm sorry to hear about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 27, 2006 Author Share Posted September 27, 2006 You guys sure hold me to a high standard. Who's to say where physical development of the brain ends and plain old learning begins? You know the old saying, "good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement" (to paraphrase). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 what video? Here's the video that I was referring to: http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_092506WABbodyfoundJK.16ac04e3.html I think it is pretty obvious where the accident occurred. Again, any death is tragic (I'm feeling especially venerable today since I had to put down one of my cats this morning). If you want to say stupid shit , take your comments elsewhere. They are not welcome here!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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