9/11 questions

[jmckay]

alpine news

 

 

It really makes you wonder about the Americain people

[crackers]

yeah. My best friend found a woman's hands on top of a building across the street in early october. They were under an air conditioning unit. My dad's partner was among the thousands of people who watched the planes go one and then two into the building.

 

Its pretty hard to believe that people believe that kind of crap. From omfg, you can fly remote control airplanes to the put option crap.

 

ugh. you'd think that people would actually get busy organizing and participating in politics, but instead they want to hide in their closets with their aluminum foil hats.

[layton]

whatever, y'all are just a big or bigger gas guzzinling hicks.

[JayB]

alpine news

 

 

It really makes you wonder about the Americain people

 

Might as well be clear. What is it, exactly, that the existence of this film makes "you wonder about the Americain [sic] people?"

 

Are you posting these links because you believe the conclusions they reach in the film, or because you can't believe that anyone would believe such things. My guess is the former, but feel free to chime in.

[skykilo]

Click 'read more.'

 

Even if you do not read what is below visit this site and I promise you it will change the way you look at the world. http://www.loosechange911.com

 

 

It has been a few years since that fateful day. Our parents had the JFK event where every single one of them can remember where they were or what they were doing at the time they first heard about the assassination of JFK. For my generation the corresponding event is the destruction of the world trade centers twin towers. I was working out at the gym in Banff and there were two big televisions running that had no sound. I must have watched the event for about 20 minutes but I actually thought it was a version of Die hard III that I had not seen yet. When the second plane hit the south tower I turned up the volume to check out what was up with what. From that moment on the world has never been the same.

It was pretty easy at the time to except the explanation provided by the US government. As time goes by and civil liberties in the US are quickly eroded things are not quite so black and white. In fact I have begun to question the entire event.

As things stand now I personally do not see Al-Queda as a threat to my freedom near as much as the US. Pretty harsh and offensive thoughts about our neighbor to the south. However their consumption of resources is going to require a forceful insistence of more then a fair share of our oil and water. It is sad to think that in my children's lifetime they will most likely see an invasion of Canadian soil by US forces. Like they say “ it is a curse to live in interesting times”

Perhaps you should check out the most viewed film on the internet and decide for yourself what really happened that day. The film “Loose Change 2” has had over 10 million viewers and seriously questions our version of reality. With that I bid you fair well and have a really nice day (if you can).

 

Maybe he's trolling? I hope so.

 

It sounds like you except [sic, sic, sic] the explanation, so how did the film change anything?

[skykilo]

I hope to fare well today and get off these interwebs...

[JayB]

9/11 has been sort of a global ink-blot test, and what people project onto the event says quite a lot about them.

 

After reading through that passage, I had a difficult time choosing the most ironic statement, but after a moment's reflection, the clear winner was the concern about the US consuming Canada's resources. The irony here is that the greatest calamity that could possibly befall Canada vis-a-vis the US would come about if we suddenly *stopped* consuming their resources. The near decade of intense lobbying that Canada engaged in in order to insure that the US did not errect or enforce obstacles to the sale or shipment of a single Canadian resource to American consumers is quite telling in this respect, and I don't recall anyone in Alberta dancing in the streets when the US government imposed a ban on Beef imports. If the entire Canadian economy can be said to have a central organizing principle, it's the sale of whatever that Canada or its citizens can produce to the US. Millions of Canadian souls have toiled for well over a century to perfect the various mechanisms necessary to turn their country into a near perfect machine for exporting products to the US. Why send an army to enforce a duty that generations of your countrymen and your government have already volunteered for, and are executing to perfection? Sleep tight, JMcKay - you are already living in your nightmare-world .

 

 

 

 

[archenemy]

Well said.

[Dechristo]

Our parents had the JFK event where every single one of them can remember where they were or what they were doing at the time they first heard about the assassination of JFK.

I was sitting at my desk in Miss Collins' class. The shock of the macro event, the announcement over the school PA system of the assassination of JFK, was accentuated by the shock of a micro event, the stolid Miss Collins weeping openly before her students.

 

I don't get how the writer quoted above fears the actions of the US government more than militant Islamic fundamentalism (let's just call the real threat by it's authentic description). It appears this threat, to what we know as civility, cares little for diplomatic resolution and ignores UN sanctions and resolution. It appears this movement is the modern day version of the Crusades demanding conversion to their religion at the point of a sword - if they're sufficiently merciful to allow this option. These guys make Christian fundamentalists who murder abortion doctors look like pusillanimous punters.

 

Try this scenario: if the US government had done nothing in response militarily and without security restrictions to 9/11/01, had sought out and captured Bin Laden and a few of his right-hand men, tried them in the World Court, all the while "terrorist" events continued and escalated here and around the world (as I believe they would have), the combined outrage and fear of the West would have put into top offices here and in Europe those of Barry Goldwater's heavy-handed mindset that are willing to unflinchingly exercise "the nuclear option" turning historic major cities of the world into smoldering wastelands and in short order make leaving or entering the US as easy as crossing the "Iron Curtain" in the '50's.

 

I find the notion of conspiracy of the US government in 9/11 ludicrous - a pathology of a healthy scepticism gone too far.

 

I'm glad for the collective howl over erosions of liberty and privacy and hope these protestations never wane. I desire that more would know a measure of peace that accompanies an equanimity in balance.

 

 

Never would I discourage peaceful political discussion and action... unless I become so enamored and focused on the words emanating from my counterpart's mouth that I neglect his hand wielding the knife at my throat.

[layton]

i think the lesson learned from the "loose change" video, is don't believe your government or the media, and question everything.

 

if i believed everything I saw or read, i'd have killed myself somewhere in the middle of "what the bleep do we know" although I felt like killing myself afterwords to get the memory of that garbage outta my skull

[archenemy]

if i believed everything I saw or read, i'd have killed myself somewhere in the middle of "what the bleep do we know" although I felt like killing myself afterwords to get the memory of that garbage outta my skull

the idiot who made that movie should have his head shot completely off of his body.

[chucK]

[Alpinfox]

Interesting correlation:

 

"Overall, how would you rate President Bush's performance on the job . . . ?"

 

Excellent/

Good - 37%

 

 

Fair/Poor - 63%

 

 

Unsure - 1%

 

SOURCE

[Alpinfox]

Regarding the Loose Change video, I think a lot of it is bullshit, but how did a 757 fit into a 16' diameter hole in the Pentagon? That one really makes me scratch my head.

 

And the missing gold. And the collapse of three high rise buildings supposedly due to fire (something that had never happened before. ever.)

 

I think the video raises a lot of interesting questions that I would like to hear answers to, but I don't buy thier conclusion of a huge, top-level conspiracy by the US gubmint. Somebody would have squealed by now.

 

edited to fix boneheaded spelling error graciously pointed out by skykilo.

[G-spotter]

how did a 757 fit into a 16' diameter hole in the Pentagon?

 

origami

[Alpinfox]

Maybe this topological conundrum has something to do with the recent proof of the Poincare conjecture?

 

[lI1|1!]

what's most interesting about the LooseChange believers is the psychology of it all - namely the extents the human mind will go to block out something they find incongruent with the rest of their world view, or simply too upsetting at a psychological level.

 

apparently most of the people living in Arab nations like Iran or Iraq don't believe the holocost ever happened.

[Billygoat]

What gets me is that, as a nation, we are so afraid and reactionary to a few random acts of terrorism, the most destructive (by a very large margin) netting about 3,000 causualties, when more people than that die every day in automobile accidents and far far more due to lifestyle choices.

 

Get a grip people

[JayB]

What gets me is that, as a nation, we are so afraid and reactionary to a few random acts of terrorism, the most destructive (by a very large margin) netting about 3,000 causualties, when more people than that die every day in automobile accidents and far far more due to lifestyle choices.

 

Get a grip people

 

The odds that I'll ever contract AIDS, or starve to death, or die from malaria, etc - are virtually nil, but I am still concerned about the harm that these things inflict on the rest of humanity. I'm less concerned about the prospect of being blown to pieces or beheaded than of hundreds of millions of people being forced to live under a form of regressive totalitarianism that belongs in the Middle Ages.

[Billygoat]

So, the invasions of Irag and Afghanistan are legit JayB? You're saying let's bring them freedom and democracy even if we have to kill them in the process?

 

And it's ok for our government to spy on us in order to protect us?! Don't you think our reaction is a bit large, specious, religiocentric and xenophobic.

 

Dude, Get A Grip (TM.)....

[Off_White]

I want to hear more about is the correlation between 9/11, 7/11, and 24/7. That shit really freaks me out.

[catbirdseat]

how did a 757 fit into a 16' diameter hole in the Pentagon?

 

origami

What Dru means to say is it has to do with folding, as in folding of the wings. What an amazing coincidence that the hole is just a little larger than the width of the fuselage.

[Billygoat]

Can anybody debunk or refute any, if not all the movie presents as questionable details in the whole event?

 

How about the video tapes from the Pentagon that were seized moments after the impact? Seems easy enough to show them. What could they possibly hide? Is there a National Security issue that controlling those images protects? What could it be?

 

What was really spooky was the fact that the pilot of the plane worked at the Pentagon back in '89 on the scenario of a 757 hitting the Pentagon. Not too many degrees of separation there...(I love this stuff)

[Alpinfox]

[Catbird attempting to make sense of Pentagon hole]

 

You know what the densest (and therefore the part that has the greatest penetrating power) part of an airplane is? Well, it's not the stale pretzels and fluffy pillows in the cabin, it's the near solid mass of titanium, steel, and aluminum of the engines. Why didn't the engines punch through the wall?

 

And if the non-fuselage parts of the airplane didn't penetrate the wall, but instead sheared off and just bounced off the wall, why isn't it scattered all across the lawn in front of the pentagon? In the immediate post-impact pictures, there is no airplane wreckage visible.

 

Seems weird to me.

 

If you are really suggesting that the wings and tail folded in towards the body of the aircraft and then went into the 16' hole that you claim was made by the fuselage.... well, you have a poor understanding of physics.

 

 

edit: Interesting link

 

Interesting link #2

 

Link #3

 

Green arrows show where the "wing roots" should have impacted. Note lack of damage where tail of plane would have hit. Yellow lines mark the support columns (~10ft apart).

 

 

 

Impressive that a guy who had only had a couple weeks of pilot school managed this direct hit while going >500mph.

Edited September 6, 2006 by Alpinfox

[fenderfour]

[Catbird attempting to make sense of Pentagon hole]

 

You know what the densest (and therefore the part that has the greatest penetrating power) part of an airplane is? Well, it's not the stale pretzels and fluffy pillows in the cabin, it's the near solid mass of titanium, steel, and aluminum of the engines. Why didn't the engines punch through the wall?

 

And if the non-fuselage parts of the airplane didn't penetrate the wall, but instead sheared off and just bounced off the wall, why isn't it scattered all across the lawn in front of the pentagon? In the immediate post-impact pictures, there is no airplane wreckage visible.

 

Seems weird to me.

 

If you are really suggesting that the wings and tail folded in towards the body of the aircraft and then went into the 16' hole that you claim was made by the fuselage.... well, you have a poor understanding of physics.

 

 

edit: Interesting link

 

I'm not great with physics, but I can tell you that the "near solid mass of titanium, steel, and aluminum of the engines" is not nearly so stout as you think.

 

The engines are designed to move air. This means that a lot of air fits inside these engines. They are really nothing more than the lightest tube GE/Rolls Royce could make to house all the needed parts to move the fans and hydraulicly power the control systems.

 

The engines are attached to the wings with five friable bolts. I would think that they came off the wings as soon as they touched the ground. The engines have to be able to break off. If they ever get mis-aligned while in flight it would be nearly impossible to regain control of the aircraft. If an engine falls off entirely, there is still a good chance that a pilot will be able to land.

 

The wings are gas tanks. While I don't have a picture of the Pentagon in front of me to see the rubble field, I wouldn't expect much of the wings to be left in an impact. It's like a flamable water baloon.

 

Structurally speaking, the sturdiest part of the airplane is called the wing box. It's where the wings attach to the fuselage. I would expect to see it somewhere in the photo.

 

The most dense section of a plane is the cargo hold. It is typically full of luggage, cargo boxes and sometimes, fuel.