rock climbing oregon guidebook

[ScaredSilly]

These are the typical Falcon "state" guides for traveling climbers who often want to visit the classic established areas. I have used them once for some climbing in the MidWest and it was not bad and in some regards better than the local guide (which was not even written by a local). Because these are generalist guides, doing these book does not need to be done by a local with absolute local knowledge but by some one who can do really good research by working with locals. That said it does often step on some toes. Often it may be someone local who wants to make some money or a name for themselves. Although as several friends who have written guides have stated - "There is no fame or money in writting guide books."

 

 

The book is scheduled to be out in August. I will try to grab a copy at the OR show and check a few of the areas that I used to be considered to be "local" and see how they did.

[ScaredSilly]

Okay I got a look at the Falcon guide today. I looked at just the Eastern Oregon section for High Valley and Anthony Lakes. Of the dozen plus routes at High Valley 4 were missing and a couple had incorrect names. At Anthony Lakes one major route was missing and another was incorrectly named. So I am not sure what to think because the authors did at least talk with a local (Steve Brown) who I know and I am sure knows about the previously published into.

 

Also there is no history or FA information in the book which think is a shame.

 

The Horton guide from the Mountaineers will be out in September.

[markd]

thanks for the update scaredsilly. what you say is exactly what i figured.

[hemp22]

I just got a copy of this book. I haven't had a chance to look through it in too much detail yet, but it looks fairly on par with the Washington Falcon Guide.

I've never been to many of the places covered in the book, so I can't comment on the accuracy of most sections. In looking through the areas that I'm familiar with, there only a couple things that I've noted so far that seem incorrect. The routes listings for some areas are not quite complete or up-to-date.

But, the crag descriptions/directions and route descriptions are all pretty thorough.

For my own tastes, there is occasionally too much "sequence" beta, and not always enough logistical beta ("two ropes needed for rappel" etc). Also, it seems weird that they applied YDS to boulder areas. They do leave out most areas that are already covered in the Portland book, or the SW Oregon books.

 

Anyway, if people have specific questions about it, let me know.

[Stewart]

Yo hemp, where can I go to check it out? Is it in any shops yet?

 

I'll smoke ya till I'm silly!!! snoop

[hemp22]

I'm not actually sure if it's in shops yet. Amazon lists the release date as Sept 1, but you can get it now from the publisher at this URL

 

if you want to see what areas it covers, there's a copy of the table of contents on page 1 of this thread.

[corvallisclimb]

I got a copy of this book a week or two ago since then I've had some time to sit down and read through it. I'm rather unimpressed with the quality of the book. It seems as if the authors mabey where in a hurry to finish the project so they kinda slacked off in some aspects. They left out any first ascent information, nothin in the area descriptions or anything, wich I feel is a must in any guide book. They made up their own names for routes, and possibly made up info or just copied it from other publications. They threw in some places that are just a joke, and make them sound like good beginner places and such, Green Ridge and the HW11 crags. They give little to no history on the areas or Oregon climbing in genereal just the usually "Smith Rock was the birthplace of sport climbing". I really didnt like the fact that they left that stuff out, they gave no indication as to why the routes in the Menagerie are so runout, doing this left out the whole ethics of the place. On the good side of things they did throw in some cool places such as Bulo Point and Anthony Lakes. Also they did a good job with lots of picutres that I like. All and all though I have to give it a Any one else have anything to say about it?

[shapp]

So for the Book 'Rock Climbing Oregon" by Adam R. Bolf and Benjamin P. Ruef,

Does anyone out there know who these guys are? and what is their story? Anybody ever climbed with them or give them beta on areas?

Corvallis, where did you get the book? also check your pms about the thingy.

[ScaredSilly]

Just a thought ... because most of us do not have intimate knowledge of all of the areas would it be of interest for a few folks to do a collective review and send it to Falcon? I already provided several pages of info directly to Falcon while at the OR show. But if done collectively perhaps they might get the idea that the quality is lacking and that they might need to rethink what their goals are for regional guides.

 

For instance, as I mentioned there is no FA or history info in the book which many feel is important. I can understand a few ommisions and errors here and there but perhaps it might help to pull every thing together. May be not ... it might be better to get a bunch of letters. But it would certainly be worth while for folks to chat before hand so that it will have impact. Food for thought.

 

BTW ... I am no longer an Oregon local. Just happen to grow up there and do a few routes in the late 70s and into the late 80s. But I still have detailed notes from when I was climbing there.

[Checat]

corvallisclimb brings up the most incredible point....

no one is talking about whether or not the fact that this guide which poorly portrays the states rich history and ethical debates. There seems to be some transplanted oregons who care enough about climbing areas in general to pass on info and ask questions about the state of affairs, yet few "Oregonian" climbers step up and discuss how we are going to be percieved at the national level, now that a (I agree with corvallisclimb, the new guide was pretty poorly done) "falcon type" state guide exists, how do people feel about it ??????????????????????????????????????

 

 

Having gone through a lot of material on bolting over the state obviously things get heated when the 'b' word comes up. How come only a handful of people even care when a state guide comes out???

Edited September 22, 2006 by Checat

[fgw]

How come only a handful of people even care when a state guide comes out???

 

Think I would get more excited if a state-wide book similar to Nick Dodge's old guidebook came out. A more thorough x-section of climbing in the state.

 

For ex., include some adventure choss in a state-wide guidebook. If you're going to write something with a title like "Oregon Rock", include a more thorough set of routes. The 3-volume series by Orton is good, I esp. like the volume with Jim Anglin's Menagerie guide (new sport line development & historical aid lines). Wish these guys would write a 4th volume to cover the rest of the state.

[gapertimmy]

I saw a copy of this at Barnes Noble this past weekend. After a quick glance I'd have to agree with some of the sentiments above... specifically those regarding sensitive areas.

 

I was at Crack in the Ground this past spring and I didn't see any signs that said climbing was not allowed, so not sure what to say about that, but rather that the area is a very unique geologic feature that is already heavily impacted by tourons.

 

The one area I was a bit upset to see in this guidebook is the fissure dome rock features located in the Badlands BLM area East of Bend. This area is currently under consideration for Wilderness Status, and some of the rocks have extended seasonal closures for birds.... but what bugs me is this place is rather unique and so far not heavily visited. The rock is beautiful, but is way too small to be considered a climbing destination imho.

 

As of my last visit out there, things are still fairly un-impacted, but I would hate to see such a special spot devoid of all vegitation and wild life... fortunately there is a bit of a walk-in to get to this 'crag'.

 

Another area pointed out in the guidebook is Meadow Camp just outside of Bend. Its a neat spot, but again, a bit of a stretch.

 

Enough of my bitching, but to sum it up, being a transplant to Bend part of the fun was making the friends, and exploring the area to discover these little 'crags' on my own.

[powderhound]

Okay, so after spending a summer in Oregon and climbing with a variety of indiviuals, I a have a couple of things to say about the climbing community.

1st: generaly everyone acts top secret and hush hush and that is a bunch of bulshit. Thwe world would be a far better palce if more people climbed. Besides just because you "found" or developed an area does not under any circumstances give you any rigths or say over the area unless it is your personal property. this type of attitude that is exhibited here in this thread elitest and nonproductive.

 

Whuy would you want to deny someone else the activity that brings so much joy in your life. Do you feel as though you are some how entilted? I hope not.

 

Oregon does not have a general guide book and it is about time. Now of course the first one is not going to be good but I didn't see you sticking your neck out there. Now I may have a biased opinion but in the climbing community bozeman is very open about new areas and the more information that is out there the better. So those of you who hold some inclination that you are deserving of climbing at a certian area and others are not need to get off you high horse and get a life. It is such bulshit that you explored these area on your own. Often you hear about them from other climbers and then you go. But that only worked when the climbing community was small. I do not belive for a second that you were all just wandering around and found your shitty secret crags. peace out

 

Let the surly commments begin.

[jlag]

So all climbing areas/potential climbing areas should be in a guidebook? Have you ever been to some of the areas Timmy is talking about? They're not developed for a reason, because the resource can't handle a flow of climbers. Most of them are barely bouldering areas and we all know how "bouldering areas" get treated. What's a matter with finding a place on your own? Or hearing about it from someone else and searching it out? You make it sound like the minute it's discovered we should start a guidebook. Fuck that. It's not about keeping secrets, it's about maintaining a balance. There's TONS of hush hush climbing areas in Montana, including Bozeman. Wake the fuck up.

[Checat]

as someone who climbed with powderhound...I will take the blame for his attitude for climbers in the state.

 

Those are harsh words against someone who has a deep respect for the people who have gone out of their way to protect places that are pretty sacred.

 

Maybe if you lived in a state where every other f ing crag that gets seen, heard about or "developed" ends up full of bolts years after other "developers" applied better ethics.

 

Montana is a state with a sound Community that acts and forsees climbing areas for their full potential, with the PRESERVATION of the crag in mind. Oregon tends towards maverick developing with no regard for over-bolting.

 

If you want to err your grievances with Oregon climbers who are too hush hush about crags. Give me a call you already have my #.

 

Otherwise I would say most Oregon climbers are generous with both crag beta and safety methods etc....

 

The balance the jlag talks about is right on.

[billcoe]

as someone who climbed with powderhound...I will take the blame for his attitude for climbers in the state.

 

thank you, now the rest of us are off the hook.

[gapertimmy]

powderhound, I'm not being elitist in any regard, besides how can I be when I helped start a website that is based upon getting the word out there about crags/mounmtains etc, rather as jlag said, some care needs to be taken when publishing information about sensitive locales.

 

I think what it really comes down to is some common sense when deciding what to publish/where, that is all. I'd write more but I have to go protect my sick new proj in the deserts of CO from getting poached.

[ScaredSilly]

1st: generaly everyone acts top secret and hush hush and that is a bunch of bulshit. The world would be a far better palce if more people climbed. Besides just because you "found" or developed an area does not under any circumstances give you any rights or say over the area unless it is your personal property. this type of attitude that is exhibited here in this thread elitest and nonproductive.

 

I do not see anyone making such statements. Most comments are more of these are small crags and are surprised to see them in the guide. I interpert this comment to mean the authors were short on material and looking for fodder.

 

The other previlent comment is about the accuracy of the guide. Some of the crags are on private property, some are in sensitve areas.

 

Then there is the "missing" info like history and FA info.

 

Finally, there is a long history in the climbing community of respecting the local ethics of an area, which often includes keeping areas quite until "the discovers get in their licks first". There is also a long history of controversy as well. I have delt with this personally on and off for over 15 years. (I was on the board of the Access Fund from day one and a regional coordinator for way too many years)

 

Oregon does not have a general guide book and it is about time.

 

Yes and no ... people can vote with their wallets if it is time. Personally the I would not buy the book.

 

Now of course the first one is not going to be good but I didn't see you sticking your neck out there.

 

The quality of the book depends on the authors and as importantly the editors and publishers. Falcon is pumping out guide books left and right I wonder who the editors are, if any?? When I talked to the Falcon reps at the OR show I got the impression that there are none. As such, they are leaving the "editing" up to the authors which means quality goes down hill.

 

 

Now I may have a biased opinion but in the climbing community bozeman is very open about new areas and the more information that is out there the better.

 

How about the rest of Montana? A sample of one does not mean squat.

 

Surly yours,

 

Scared Silly

[Checat]

Great post Scared Silly. Are you still the Oregon Regional Coordinator for Access Fund??

 

You are bringing the topic back to this new guide which is what is really important. Your three gripes a.fa beta, b. access sensitivity and c. quality of info, is the same three gripes I and other rockclimber/gear dealers had with the publication.

 

powderhound is bringing up the fact no great state guide exists, mostly because everyone is so hush hush with the dope crags of the state not allowing them in a guide like this; and this guide has obviously focused on inaqdequate areas and has inadequately covered them

 

there is a sheeetload of new crags that will probably break two to three years from now, some of traditional nature, others sport and extensions of other areas.

 

any potential guidebook author trying to write about Oregon should at least take it heart that people want

 

a. crags that have real relevance, size and scope

b. don't have access issues

c. first ascent beta is important (if you don't think so read up Watts, Thomas, Dodge, I could go on)

d. cover the area adequately and effectively (don't just toss lines on rocks and give people driving directs)

 

AND DO NOT EVER

 

rename and regrade a route thats existed since the 70's and try and claim it as your own because you think your cool writing a guide book (see sisters area of Falcon Oregon).

 

If you thought some surly comments were coming before,

bring em on!!!

 

Che

[powderhound]

There's TONS of hush hush climbing areas in Montana, including Bozeman. Wake the fuck up.

 

I am so glad that you are a active memberin the bozeman climbing community that you can speak so definetley. What your name agian?

[powderhound]

 

 

I do not see anyone making such statements. Most comments are more of these are small crags and are surprised to see them in the guide. I interpert this comment to mean the authors were short on material and looking for fodder.

 

I am gald you paid attention to waht I said. I was describing the expirence that I had this summer "ROCK CLIMBING" in oregon, not what someone was spraying about on the internet. There is a distinct difference between what you read and say on CC.com and what feel happens ouside.

[powderhound]

as someone who climbed with powderhound...I will take the blame for his attitude for climbers in the state.

 

thank you, now the rest of us are off the hook.

 

Bill and Paul were some of the bnest people that I have ever climbed with. these comments do not speak about the status of the climber and how much I like or dislike them. This post was about the general atmosphere that surrounds most crags in oregon. This "its my crag mentallity" which fuels egos and then when something happens that they don't like step back because shit is going to hit the fan. Take for example places like beacon, ozone, Elk, trout, these areas that where people think that they have ownership over the area.

 

Comments about we can't publish an area because only ten people can climb there at once is a horrible basis for an argument. Its like Well we should not put up a swing set in the park because we can't provide swings for all 100 kids running around. ever heard a concept called shairng????

[jlag]

Once again my stance is the resource, not the hush hush attitude. I hate that shit too. But comparing a fucking swing set to a new potential climbing area is about as off base as it gets. Do they build swing sets in riparian areas? How about nesting habitats? It sounds to me like you were exposed to some real assholes while climbing in Oregon this summer. That sucks, I'm sorry but that's not a good representation of Oregon Climbers. Trout Creek? It's been on the map for years, go into InClimb they'll give you a topo. Have you looked at the guidebook your defending? Seriously? I came across a lot more hush hush attitude in Montana than here. Funny thing is the rock sucks here compare to there. Nice work in Blodgett, that place kicks ass.

[Checat]

If you think all of oregons rock sucks your probably not getting with the right Oregonians. Trouts never been a mystery, its in dodges 68 guide, sheet I heard Gavin Ferguson all but stuffs the beta down your throat if you hhapen to run into him out there,

 

thats not the hush hush stuff. GF has stuff up his sleeves in central or and theirs unknown gems from SoOr all way through the Gorge and all areas between

 

I think people are hush hush because ethics and style in this state is so unpredictable. If the communtiy had montana standards it would be easier for developers to pump up their places...

Edited October 20, 2006 by Checat

[ScaredSilly]

Great post Scared Silly. Are you still the Oregon Regional Coordinator for Access Fund??

 

Thanks. I was the RC for what was the Great Basin through most of the 90s. Which included many states but not Oregon. However, I did do a little in far eastern Oregon - Lesile Gulch. That was interesting to say the least. Lesile Gulch also made the Falcon guide. Cetainly a place I would stop at - right after I get off the Oywhee

 

BTW - I should add I am no longer associated with the Access Fund in any form as such my comments are mine alone. And if you think otherwise - you are a fool.