New bolts and routes at Rocky Butte, need advice

[billcoe]

Hi,

 

Some of you know I spend part of the winter skiing my ass off, and on those few days where my kid didn't drag me to the mountain, started some cleaning projects at Rocky Butte. Jim Robinson named the area I've been working "Bill's Buttress", and I kind of like that. It's about 50 steps west of Video Bluff, just past that faint 4th class desent trail, before you get to Dream Weaver.

 

The first of perhaps 5 routes with a few more variations has been done, and I want to put in bolts with chains at the top.

 

I plan on using top quality 316 stainless steel bolt and chains. I want to solicit people’s opinions about this. I have been informally asking the occasional stranger or 3 I've bumped into out there and have heard no objections, yet.

 

Typically and historically the person who does the FA gets flat fiat to make these choices. I'm pretty sure that Joe Parsley didn't want bolts at the top of Vertical Therapy, he didn't put any in, and the single bolt which showed up the next year got whacked soon after it was plugged in and the ugly stud is still there 20 years later for viewing. I don't want that. I had put some anchor bolts/hangers in at the top of a couple of Mike Pajunas routes once and they lasted less than month before they were chopped.

 

But we're not talking about adding bolts to an exisitng route which had no bolts for years.

 

I want to do this once and do it right. I won't put anything in the Buttress area until it's clean and the loose rocks are off, which may be quite a while. You can ask Acacia how clean it is, but it’s a work in progress to be sure.

 

What moved my timetable up is that Glen invited me out this weekend to bolt the route he just finished cleaning immediately to the right of Superman: so now this question needs to be asked openly.

 

If you feel uncomfortable having this discussion and revealing your identity publicly, I would urge you to get a fake mail.com address or something (if you want to be anonyomys) and email me at Billcoe@gmail.com, I want input.

 

I just don't want to put in some bolts and chains just to have them ripped out in 20 min.

 

For Glens little route, having bolts there, with chains and a rap station on top, would be a huge improvement for many reasons: getting down easily and safely off of Superman and Glens Route as the sun sets is just one of them. As it's a brand new route, should Glen and I be able to choose doing this as an option?

 

My special question: are there any objections? If so, what are they? I've run into people who got pissed that older route which never had any bolts had new bolts added, and I understand that argument. That’s not what is being discussed here. These are new routes.

 

No flames please no matter what is said, everybody’s viewpoint is valid (even if you're wrong ). As I realize that probably less than 20 percent of people who climb out there are online, let’s have the discussion in person as well.

 

PS, this question is for local people who actually climb there, not necessarilly Canadians or people named ofter furry water creatures who just want to pipe up with a joke that doesn't add to the discussion.

[mattp]

This is not what you asked about, but if you anticipate that there may be some objections, and particularly in an area where bolt-chopping has taken place before, I'd consider using Petzl 5-piece bolts or something else that can be removed without chopping. This may make it easier for someone who doesn't like your bolts to remove them, but I don't think you are going to end up with some general agreement that everyone else in the area will sign on to, and it will reduce the chances that you will end up with an unsightly and useless broken stud. It will also facilitate maintenance at some point years to come.

 

You may have already thought about this, so forgive me if I state the obvious or if you have a different idea.

[corvallisclimb]

exactly do it once do it right

[hemp22]

It sounds to me like you're looking to do the right thing and make sure that these climbs are set up to be safe and solid, and I think that's great.

If they are indeed new routes, then yeah, I think it would be poor form for someone to chop them.

 

I think that this new area could be a great little addition as long as care is taken it setting the whole area up to be clean & safe. In addition to trundling loose rocks off the routes, that may also mean that there are stable areas at the top & base of the route, that the approach to the top or base is stable and not sketchy, and preferably that there's no poison oak. I can't quite picture the area that you're talking about, so I don't have a good idea in my head about it right now, but even if the new routes are great and have nice anchors on them, I probably wouldn't feel compelled to check them out if I were going to be risking life & limb (or another nasty rash) to get to the climbs.

 

As for the climb next to superman - I'd agree that you guys should be free to set up anchors for the new route. But if the route is really close to superman, then I could see how someone might think that you're just adding a bolted anchor to that established climb and want to chop them because of that. Again, I don't know exactly where the line is that you're talking about, but hopefully it's far enough away that there won't be confusion.

 

so, anyway, for what it's worth, I have no objections. hopefully soon I'll actually make it out to one of these after-work sessions at rocky and take a look at the lines.

 

out of curiosity, what types of climbs are your new ones? all gear, all face/bolts, or mixed, or TR-only?

[billcoe]

Hi Hemp, come out tonight eh?

 

Matt, that's a great idea, I hadn't thought of it. I already have the ss bolts.... hmmmmmm....

 

To answer hemp: the first route on the buttress was 100 percent gear. (so an anchor on top may be construed as a suprufulous pussyness add-on by others).

 

The others are yet to be done, and may be 100 percent gear depending on what happens.... still need to finish cleaning the lower Buttress. I just noticed Sunday that the very best handholds @ 1/2 way up on the next route over (yet to be done) is in fact just a huge loose flake.

 

I'm only @1/3 down on the far Eastern side cleaning, and there is a schweet looking hard thin crack up high on the left and an wide easy 5.8ish chimmey thing that I climb up in my tennis shoes to get off the cliff right next to it which you could drop a 8 or 9 hex in for pro where it starts in the middle of the cliff, but lower down (still dirty so who can really say) it looks like 40' of slab on the east side, and possibly a discontinous crack directly below/off to the side a bit. There are still some killer rocks (real killers, not using killer for "good" which I got most off already) and of course, approx half a ton of dirt left.

 

This isn't prime territory.

 

 

Glens route will be 100 percent bolts. Real clean.

[KingsMM]

Sounds fine to me. Just a thought. If these routes are so dirty to start with will they really get the number of ascents to remain clean? Quiet a few of the Butte's routes have already been reclaimed. But i belive that the FAest has the right to do new routes if pertaining to the ethics of the area. which it sounds you are. Sounds sweet! Good luck.

 

-Kip

[JosephH]

I rather suspect Bill is doing a great job and service out there. But with regard to a "stable top and base", everyone should be aware that the "top" out Rocky Butte is inherently one of the most dangerous climbing environments you could possibly come across. The soil is incredible slick when even moist regardless of the flatness / topology of ground. Add to that snagging and slick vegitation and it all makes for potentially deadly ground. In fact, Bill almost took a ride over the edge the last time I was out with him and I've done the same once or twice over the years. Now I make sure I'm wearing my harness when I go near the edge to do something and either clip into an anchor or set a piece while I doing any work.

 

Be careful out there...

[motomagik]

My advice - unless you want your hard-earned time and money to go to waste don't bother with the anchors. They will get chopped by the douchebags who have insisted on chopping them for years now.

It's a shame because Rocky "Butt" could actually be a really fun place to climb, which would make it a much nicer place in general (i.e. less trash, grafitti, etc). But instead it's a pain in the ass place to climb. I never understood what goes on out there. Some friends of mine took the time to put an anchor in on top of a way fun route out there only to have them chopped two days later. Ridiculous. Not sure if it's the wacko-religious fanatics that hangout around there or deranged climbers who stalk the place for any new anchors to chop, but it's really bizarre, and sad.

Kudos for taking the time and interest to put in new routes but unfortunately I wouldn't bother with the anchors.

[billcoe]

Yup.

 

Somebody recently took 1 of the hangers off of AC-DC, although for years it had nothing. Just took 1 single hanger and left the stud and the other bolt/hanger combo just fine. I'm not putting another one on there as it works OK just the way it is if you back it up with a sling off the tree.

 

Anyway, probably could fill a full thread with grousing and bad Juju (don't get John started about Loni's car/visa theft, I think they were using the card before he even got back to his rig) .

 

On the bright side, there are really less used hypodermic needles and used condoms. Seriously. And less porn too ever since that guy fell off the top near ranger rock and died with his pants around his ankles.

 

Jim and Glen said they later met the guys friends out there, and when they told how they had found their dead friend and the pants and all, the friends said that the guy liked to go out ther and pleasure himself at the top of the cliff right there. Probably just got into it too much.

 

Bizarre.

_____________________________________________

 

Seconds until next sheep or Enumclaw post: 3..........2.............1.......

[kevbone]

Thanks bill for cleaning, portland needs new routes, cleaning dirt out of cracks and off of faces is super hard work. Once again thanks for taking the time to clean.

 

As far as putting anchors in, you know I am a fan of not topping out on singe pitch cliffs, expecially where the soil is not stable and there is an abudance of that poison stuff. If the routes are new, then it is entirely your call as to how you want to climb it and protect it. Maybe put the anchor is such a place that you have to climb the route to get to them or rap it. Some climbs there you can walk up to the anchor from the top.

 

As for the bolts, I like the five piece rawls. Or the studs you gave Jim a while ago! Those are bomer! Once again, thanks for doing vertical cleaning, I know how painstaking that kind of work is.

[ivan]

Jim and Glen said they later met the guys friends out there, and when they told how they had found their dead friend and the pants and all, the friends said that the guy liked to go out ther and pleasure himself at the top of the cliff right there. Probably just got into it too much.

 

Bizarre.

now that is what i'm fawking talking about!

[billcoe]

Quick note to bring this thread current:

 

Glenn/John F and my bolts on Glenns route have been left alone...so far. Glenns route is really nice. It rarely sees ascents because it looks so damn hard, but might be only 5.7 or 8.

 

Those routes which were put in on Bill's Buttress all have bolted top anchors. John's (Nolse's) drill worked like a hot knife through butter to make those holes.

 

There were eventually 6 routes totally (with some more later TR variations) which were cleaned up on the Buttress. Mike Pajunas great route Dream Weaver can now be led from the ground up instead of from the Maple tree which was where it always started.

 

As I said earlier, mostly because I heard more than once from various belayers that the head space for a lead was so great due to poor rock and runouts: I don't care if you put bolts anywhere in that area. Be aware that this is not agreed by everyone though, so I am only saying what I think. It's not my rock. Toproping is available off bolted anchors (again, very contenious as it is bolted), certainly you'll be good with a 70m rope. A 60 meter reaches to the ground on most, but not all of them.

 

Only 1 bolt (total) was put in for protection on all of these routes, mostly cause I was injured, in pain, and feeling wussylike with my tendon sheath in the left forearm having totally blown and separated and it had rolled up like a hard rubber band under the skin. My wife questioned me as I was taping the forearm before leaving the house that day. She knew I'd injured it, cause I'd told her what the Dr. had said, and also had been moping around the house and I hadn't been on rock for 2 weeks. She started laughing as she saw this disaster unfold and said this was typical Bill, and suggested that I was about to really make it hurt. I recognised the wisdom in her words, and laughed as well. My mirth was caused because I knew this would be grist for her good-natured "I told you so" mill for at least 3-4 years as I fully expected her to be right.

 

So I get there and I recognise a car on top and am literally just heading down to start rounding up some noobs to belay me when Bryan Schmidt calls my cell. (thankfully!) He needs to climb and says he's on the way, and later when he showed up I gave him the option of taking the lead which he did. So he led that route (on the far left) which had the bolt anyway. I think he appreciated the bolt too, but he had gotten a tiny alien in a spot under the overhand on a boulder where I never did later find, perhaps 10' below the bolt, which was only a bit underneath where a crack started. I was glad he it did cause my wrist was so F*ed up. Following did not seem too bad, but I noticed that when I rope soloed it later it seemed 2 grades easier than we both had agreed it was when he led it.

 

-anyway-

 

1 top anchor hanger on the Eastern most buttress routes was later removed about a month later for no apparent reason. I showed up later with a new replacement hanger, put it on, used a torque wrench to put it in place at 22 ft lbs and then covered the top with epoxy to keep any other wrench off of it. It is still there.

 

Someone is doing some recent gardening: great to see, and also, no new bolts have been added to old routes that had no bolts to start with this year, so that controversy seems dead.

 

The Oak dosn't seem to be a target for the gardeners. Maybe someone could show up with some Roundup? Bring some insect spray for the wasps at the left side of Video bluff (just to the right of AC/DC) while you're at it eh?

 

Broken glass seems to still be accumulating, abiet less rapidly, mostly at Video/Bill Buttress area.