Suggestions for a light weight emergency system

[Tobi]

Hello, I am part of a university design team asked to do a case study on the feasability of a light weight emergancy system that utilises wind energy to generate electricity. It is intended for climbers caught in extreme weather and supposed to provide heat/light in order to avoid hypothermia or dehydration (melt ice).?We intend to design a small, mobile, vertical wind turbine that can catch the wind from any direction and we would like to get some suggestions from you, as climbers, on what you think are the most crucial criteria the emergancy system should fulfill.?We welcome any thoughts you might have.?Many thanks, Tobi

[DirtyHarry]

A Light Weight Emergancy System that Untilizes Wind Energy to Generate Electricity Intended for Climbers Caught in Extreme Weather Supposed to Provide Heat / Light In Order to Prevent Hypothermia or Dehydration is aid.

[Tobi]

Yes it is supposed to aid climbers. I could not find a section devoted to that and I thought as critics of existing gear you would know exactly what is needed.

If you could let us know what the ideal emergency system would look like for you, then we can take that into account in our design.

To get you started, criteria we are taking into account so far are:

-weight

-ease of assembly

-size

-robustness

-weather resistance

-safety

-different methods of fastening it to the ground

-possibly a way of manual operation

-adaption to different wind speeds and directions

It would be a great help to us and ultimatively it can only help the climbing community.

[Squid]

Why would a climber want electricity?

 

Your system would have to be lighter and less expensive than a camp stove before most would even consider it.

[OlympicMtnBoy]

Yeah, I think the criteria would have to be weight=0. I could carry a stove or a 1 lb sleeping bag to keep me warm in an emergency, but frequently I don't even do that, preferring the light=fast=home and warm sooner method. And as Squid said, what am I gonna do with power up there anyways, unless I had one of those silly battery powered heater jackets and my battery was dead. How about looking at a really light system for base camp use. I've had good luck with solar power to charge batteries for the mp3 player , speakers, cameras, and flashlights. If I'm packing/skiing/mule training in for the long haul I might consider an extra pound or two for power. I still won't carry it on the climb.

[catbirdseat]

Hello, I am part of a university design team asked to do a case study on the feasability of a light weight emergancy system that utilises wind energy to generate electricity. It is intended for climbers caught in extreme weather and supposed to provide heat/light in order to avoid hypothermia or dehydration (melt ice).?We intend to design a small, mobile, vertical wind turbine that can catch the wind from any direction and we would like to get some suggestions from you, as climbers, on what you think are the most crucial criteria the emergancy system should fulfill.?We welcome any thoughts you might have.?Many thanks, Tobi

How are you going to design a turbine that doesn't collect snow and ice?

[Tobi]

One of the ideas is to have a vertical rotor similar to the one shown here: http://www.turby.nl/

We believe that such a design would minimize the collection of snow and ice.

[DirtyHarry]

I can see a use for something like this in a expedition basecamp situation, where it could be constantly on for melting water. But on a climb, I seriously doubt something like this would be as efficient as a stove for melting or boiling water. As far as heat is concerned, how would this device generate full body heat from a single heat source point?

[olyclimber]

This thing to charge up your cellphone, and you're set for emergencies.

 

[G-spotter]

This thing to charge up your cellphone, and you're set for emergencies.

 

 

I don't think that will be very useful in a tent in a whiteout, whereas a wind turbine will be better as the storm increases which will be good for epics.

 

All it needs is an adapter so you can plug in your Met5.

[Gary_Yngve]

The fundamental problem I see is that more power means more mass and volume, things climbers try to minimize. And a generator would have to have a copper or iron core? That's heavier than the lighter aluminum and titanium we use for most of our gear.

 

The other problem would be anchoring and stabilizing the turbine with available gear in the snow. Wind hitting a large blade can generate a lot of force.

 

The funny thing is I did some back-of-the-envelope math for how much power would be necessary to boil water in a reasonable amount of time, and the problem is my numbers were way too theoretical because I didn't know the efficiencies / losses. I came up with only 1W needed (1 Liter of water + 100 degrees, divided by 7 minutes), but most percolators operate in excess of 1000W.

[catbirdseat]

Dryad used something like that in her Himalayan trek to charge camera batteries with good success.

[G-spotter]

It better have a latte frother attachment!

[DirtyHarry]

Or a "personal massage" attachment.

[larrythellama]

ability

awareness

fitness

 

is all you need.

[G-spotter]

and coffee

[jmace]

Why would a climber want electricity?

 

yup, answer that and I think you will have a good starting point on your project.

[ambys]

I was just wondering if this went anywhere, and if so, are your results/findings publicly available?

 

--ambys

[Dechristo]

will there be an alcohol distillation attachment?

[jhamaker]

Yep, there is an actual need for charging batteries. It's mostly those crazy researchers that carry gear that needs electricity. Your comptetition for weight, bulk, and durrability are the solar charging systems. Many blue-water sailors have slick wind or solar options.

[ambys]

I have the SolarRoll 9 and it does the job well, but by the time you add the weight of the panel, the vehicle adapter, and the individual cords necessary to connect to things, it weighs a good pound and a quarter to pound and a half. Something lighter and perhaps more efficient would be great.

 

As far as gear, I'd use it to power my camera, my headlamp and a GPS data logger.

[max]

The funny thing is I did some back-of-the-envelope math for how much power would be necessary to boil water in a reasonable amount of time, and the problem is my numbers were way too theoretical because I didn't know the efficiencies / losses. I came up with only 1W needed (1 Liter of water + 100 degrees, divided by 7 minutes), but most percolators operate in excess of 1000W.

 

I think you're envelope was too short. With the numbers you've started with, if you do it right, you'll end up with about 996 watts. oops.

 

edit:

 

[font:Courier New][1L H2O][100C],,,[1000mL H2O][100C],,,100000cal,,,418400J

-------------- = ------------------ = --------- = ------- = 996W

,,,,7min,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,7min,,,,,,,,,,,420sec,,,,,,420sec[/font]

Edited April 16, 2007 by max