Monorail dead! News at Eleven!

[archenemy]

However, market value fluctuates depending on inventory, time of year, etc; tax assessments do not. In some areas, tax assessments are able to keep up with market values for time, in many areas they do not.

If someone is to sell their property, they should get what the market will pay, NOT what the government says they are worth. Keeping the process of setting the value in the same office as the people who want to buy the property just seems a little too close for comfort, don't you think?

[cj001f]

Keeping the process of setting the value in the same office as the people who want to buy the property just seems a little too close for comfort, don't you think?

The value is set by asessors, who don't reside in the same office. Do you think?

[archenemy]

Government in general vs. the market.

[ketch]

How the fuck should I know what the government took for I5? Show me where to look stuff like that up, and I will enjoy reading it (Google didn't give me these numbers).

 

Ok Arch strictly since this is the spray forum here is one to redy (Readers Digest version)

 

When I was a kid I-5 was being built through my neighborhood. Many of the owners got the short end of the stick when they lost land or had to move. Several others got a sweet deal as they bought the houses slated for demo and moved them to subsidized lots. For a little guy it was great, lots of buldozers and stuff. About once every three or four days there was another house driving down the road to be relocated. Best part was that every evening when I got a little bratty my mom would tell me to take my bike and go play on the freeway. Can't do that last part anymore, the rest is also a bit more challenging.

[archenemy]

My mom also told me to ride my bike on the freeway--and that was just last week.

 

I don't want to sound like a total extremist here, and I think I am letting myself get painted into a corner somehow.

 

I don't like to see the little guy get stepped on, but we all make sacrifices for the good of the group in one way or another. I am not proposing what MattP posted, and I am not saying that roads, mass transit, right of way, etc are bad. All I am saying is that it bothers me when I read about everyday folk like you and me getting coerced into something they don't want to do. That's all

Nothing more

I am not running for office

I am not an extremist

And I am not going to run around with a sign in my hand.

That's it.

[Chaps]

West Coast=Retarded People

[mattp]

That's why I asked for clarification of your viewpoint, Archy. When you wrote stuff like how no one's property was comandeered or stolen to make biketrails and said you didn't understand why the little guy had to get screwed for public transit and held out busses as an example of how the little guy doesn't get screwed, it looked to me like you were arguing a rather strong line against public condemnation for transit.

 

Where you express sympathy for the victim of urban growth -- at least in the form of transit expansion -- I'm with you. I'm not sure the situation is as you suggest, however, if you are suggesting that the property owner is always or even usually forced to sell their property for some under-valued amount or that roads and street-cars do not require takings of private property. (I'm not putting words in your mouth here, am I?) Also, I am sure the "little guy" who lost his or her house is unhappy about the situation even if they got 110% of "actual market value" unless they were planning to sell anyway -- and when they look back after the transit is completed and (maybe) values in the area have gone up, they are probably even less happy about it.

 

 

It'd be interesting to lear what payments were made to those who are losing their property for stations along the new light rail line and what accomodations/support/etc. is going into Rainier Valley or the U. District and what this is going to do for the "little guy." I don't know -- do you? Where you read in the newspaper that the local chamber of commerce says area businesses are going to be severly impacted, or when Mr. Citizen Activist comes out with some alarming cry and it is published in the newsapaper alongside predictions of ecomonmic growth and talk of an improved quality of life in the area I don't really know what to make of it all.

 

 

 

 

By the way, you ignored my last red herring. If it penciled out to be a good idea in terms of practical transporation coirridors and cost, What would you say to a proposal to convert some of the bike paths that have been built through "rails to trails" programs back to rails again?

[jon]

 

Fuck this fucking town.

 

I agree. I just returned from two weeks in Germany and Austria and I could get ANYWHERE on the train, I didn't even need to use the bus or light rail which gets you everywhere else. It blew my mind how easy it was to get around. And you can drink beer anywhere!

[jon]

Oh yeah I rode my bike around there and I didn't have one person honk at me or yell at me. There are bike trails everywhere too, every major road has a bike trail next to it. And there were no fucking roots screwing up the trail like the Burke Gilman. Time to pick up a third language and get the hell out of here.

[Dru]

oompah oompah

[archenemy]

That's why I asked for clarification of your viewpoint, Archy. When you wrote stuff like how no one's property was comandeered or stolen to make biketrails and said you didn't understand why the little guy had to get screwed for public transit and held out busses as an example of how the little guy doesn't get screwed, it looked to me like you were arguing a rather strong line against public condemnation for transit.

 

Where you express sympathy for the victim of urban growth -- at least in the form of transit expansion -- I'm with you. I'm not sure the situation is as you suggest, however, if you are suggesting that the property owner is always or even usually forced to sell their property for some under-valued amount or that roads and street-cars do not require takings of private property. (I'm not putting words in your mouth here, am I?) Also, I am sure the "little guy" who lost his or her house is unhappy about the situation even if they got 110% of "actual market value" unless they were planning to sell anyway -- and when they look back after the transit is completed and (maybe) values in the area have gone up, they are probably even less happy about it.

 

 

It'd be interesting to lear what payments were made to those who are losing their property for stations along the new light rail line and what accomodations/support/etc. is going into Rainier Valley or the U. District and what this is going to do for the "little guy." I don't know -- do you? Where you read in the newspaper that the local chamber of commerce says area businesses are going to be severly impacted, or when Mr. Citizen Activist comes out with some alarming cry and it is published in the newsapaper alongside predictions of ecomonmic growth and talk of an improved quality of life in the area I don't really know what to make of it all.

 

 

 

 

By the way, you ignored my last red herring. If it penciled out to be a good idea in terms of practical transporation coirridors and cost, What would you say to a proposal to convert some of the bike paths that have been built through "rails to trails" programs back to rails again?

 

You argue for a living.

I don't.

Fuck you and the red herring you rode in on.

[mattp]

You seem at least equal to me, at least as far as arguing for entertainment. Don't give up!

 

Really, though, I think this whole question is an interesting one. I don't know what to make of all the morass of politics we face over public transit. Is the monorail a bad idea? I don't know. To borrow from your "clarification," all I'm saying is that I really don't know if the monorail is a bad idea or not.

[archenemy]

Okay, then strike my last comment from the record.

 

Light rail is a great idea. It works well in many, many countries. They all seem to possess one characteristic that Americans don't seem to display:

They plan ahead.

 

 

 

Oh, and the interviews I read were in the Puget Sound Business Journal. Not a hotbed of activism mind you, it was just a financial impact article. I added the outrage.

[olyclimber]

A man went to a brain store to get some brain to complete a study. He sees a sign remarking on the quality of professional brain offerred at this particular brain store. He begins to question the butcher about the cost of these brains.

 

"How much does it cost for engineer brain?"

 

"Three dollars an ounce."

 

"How much does it cost for programmer brain?"

 

"Four dollars an ounce."

 

"How much for lawyer brain?"

 

"$1,000 an ounce."

 

"Why is lawyer brain so much more?"

 

"Do you know how many lawyers we had to kill to get one ounce of brain?"

[olyclimber]

So, you were gone until you returned?

[olyclimber]

come on matt...tell us some good lawyer jokes.

[archenemy]

I thought you said Matt WAS a good lawyer joke?

[slothrop]

Light rail is a great idea. It works well in many, many countries. They all seem to possess one characteristic that Americans don't seem to display:

They plan ahead.

 

That's not really fair, is it? I mean, I am just as outraged as you that Seattle can't build a F*&$! public transit system, but Americans know how to plan for the long term just fine. Those Americans just don't get elected. Not since the 1960s, at the latest.

 

Europe also has much higher gas taxes! Raise the gas tax and build something useful, dammit.

[cj001f]

Light rail is a great idea. It works well in many, many countries. They all seem to possess one characteristic that Americans don't seem to display:

They plan ahead.

 

That's not really fair, is it? I mean, I am just as outraged as you that Seattle can't build a F*&$! public transit system, but Americans know how to plan for the long term just fine. Those Americans just don't get elected. Not since the 1960s, at the latest.

 

Europe also has much higher gas taxes! Raise the gas tax and build something useful, dammit.

 

Nope, not America

[mattp]

The real question I have is this: why are the powers that be so set against the monorail?

 

From day one most powerful people around town have been shooting it down and thats why we've had four votes to build it and it h hasn't gotten anywhere while, by contrast, we've voted no on two stadiums that have gotten built. Why are we moving forward on light rail, but not the monorail - is it really an inherently bad idea?

 

Yes, some say that an elevated line is ugly and they note that Fifth Avenue has suffered from the impact, but hey: a monoral line doesn't block traffic and isn't it much cheaper per mile than light rail? Yes, Ballard to West Seattle may not be the most heavily travelled route in the city, but won't the light rail serve or potentially serve SE and NE Seattle so a line serving NW and SW portionsof the City would seem to compliment that, right?

 

It seems to me there are plusses and minuses here, but we're not talking about them. It's not about whether the little guy gets screwed when land is condemned -- as we have been discussing here, and I don't think it is about whether the financing package is no good -- as we've been discussing in the media. What are the real issues? Do we really think the monorail board has been incompetent while Sound Transit has been well run?

[tivoli_mike]

The real question I have is this: why are the powers that be so set against the monorail?

 

From day one most powerful people around town have been shooting it down and thats why we've had four votes to build it and it h hasn't gotten anywhere while, by contrast, we've voted no on two stadiums that have gotten built. Why are we moving forward on light rail, but not the monorail - is it really an inherently bad idea?

 

Yes, some say that an elevated line is ugly and they note that Fifth Avenue has suffered from the impact, but hey: a monoral line doesn't block traffic and isn't it much cheaper per mile than light rail? Yes, Ballard to West Seattle may not be the most heavily travelled route in the city, but won't the light rail serve or potentially serve SE and NE Seattle so a line serving NW and SW portionsof the City would seem to compliment that, right?

 

It seems to me there are plusses and minuses here, but we're not talking about them. It's not about whether the little guy gets screwed when land is condemned -- as we have been discussing here, and I don't think it is about whether the financing package is no good -- as we've been discussing in the media. What are the real issues? Do we really think the monorail board has been incompetent while Sound Transit has been well run?

 

Nope, its about one transit agency protecting its incumbency and salivating other the taxing capacity that is currently tied up in an unpstart agency. Oh and the Mayor wants his own little trolley to Lake Union. Ding Ding.

[archenemy]

Either that or maybe there was more government pockets to be lined in the Stadium deal than the Monorail gig?

[iain]

 

Some people love to hate the Tri-Met Max lines (too expensive, too inefficient, etc etc) but I love it! It is so nice to just roll your bike onto the Max and head downtown, or head out to the Airport w/o dealing with parking or begging for rides. With the fareless square extended far on the east side now, it's a no-brainer for going downtown. I think it's worth the expense, and it doesn't take up much room (you don't need an elevated elaborate thing). I think the Seattle thing is pretty ugly and imposing, though the Tri-Met Streetcar rails are the nemesis of every bike commuter.

[Roger]

the Tri-Met Streetcar rails are the nemesis of every bike commuter.

no, just the uncoordinated ones, and maybe those dorks in the recumbents. Otherwise agreed - Max rocks!

[cj001f]

the Tri-Met Streetcar rails are the nemesis of every bike commuter.

no, just the uncoordinated ones, and maybe those dorks in the recumbents. Otherwise agreed - Max rocks!

And the ones who get forced into them in NW by the MILF in Audi headed to yoga. MAX rocks, especially when you had the year pass given to you by your employer. Just wish they had had later evening service, particularly from the airport.