ettiquet

[avalance]

With so many climbs available is it proper to set up shop right next to someone while they are climbing. I was at Frenchmans during the middle of the week on Fatmans wuth 3 other friends while 2 other guys plopped their gear right at the foot of my belayer. They stood around and just acted impatient wondering how long we were going to be. We where going to climb more but left after one lead and went somewhere else. This is the third time this has happened to me and my friends. Is this common practice?

[freak]

Unfortunately at Vantage sometimes this happens, I usually dont mind if the person is nice, But if not then tell em where to go, BACK TO SEATTLE. just kiddin I used to live there but found a lot more rock over here so I moved. n.

[highclimb]

shame on them. they should know better.

didnt their mothers ever teach them good climbing ettiquette(sp)when they were little.

when they did this did you speak up about it? if anyone came up to me while i was belaying someone and threw their gear right down at my feet. and where standing around waiting and being impatient i would spend all day at that climb and just do laps on it till they left and just as they leave say something to them about common courtesy. and then be like oh wait did you want to climb this next i am sorry here we will go now.

another thought. thats why i try to spend as much as my time away from crags as possible and more time in the alpine enviroment. the people there seem to be, well how can i put this nicely, rude and selfish(sp). now i know this is a stereotype but i have come across alot more poeple like this cragging than in the mountains, in fact i am not sure i have come across anyone in the mountains that was rude or mean. now the people i meet up climbing in the mountains have never been selfish or rude but instead nice and open. does anyone else share this notion?

 

of course there are exceptions when your tired of those darned 11 mile, steep switch backed, Cascade approaches , and just want to go out craggin for a day.

Aidan

[This message has been edited by highclimb (edited 04-29-2001).]

[avalance]

We thought about doing laps but we weren't there for that. I also didnt say anything for I didn't want to start a confrontation. They would have been hurt. you never know how someone will react to some proper education on ettiquette (sp). Maybe a nice roll down the scree would help. And yes mountaineers do seem to have more manners. I live on the Peninsula so crowding in the hills is not a problem but we do lack good rock for cragging. we do have our spots though.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Bummer about this whole issue. If you were not doing laps then the bozos should have had enough patience to wait. A friendly shove off a ledge or down the scree may have been what the arrogant punks needed.

I am not too sure about mtnrs having more manners. There were unfriendly enough to not let my friend stay in one of their campsites when all the cmpgrnds were full. Words were something to the effect that you aint mtnr get outta here.

The truth sounds like they were arrogant punks as I mentioned above.. THere seems to be a lot of these types in the climbing community as a whole unfortunately.

[Dru]

Why would anyone want to climb next to someone else at vantage? i'm sure the rain of mobile holds from above would be enough deterrent for most sane persons.

[chucK]

If you want to climb a currently-occupied climb at a popular crag, the proper etiquette is to wait your turn. It is nice if you don't spew beta or make disparaging remarks about the climbers. It is really nice to not chat up the belayer if they don't appear to be into it.

Expecting someone to vacate the area is asking a bit much at a popular crag.

Camping out in the wilderness is a different situation and there it is proper to attempt to not invade the solitude of someone who got there first.

It would definitely be poor etiquette to do laps or be purposely slow for the express purpose of pissing someone off who dared wait in line for the climb you were on.

Sorry, but I don't see where the problem was.

Did the guy drop his cams on your belayer's toe? Were they giving you shit or something? It is sort of tough to tell from your story.

Chuck

[avalance]

Lets see they stepped on our rope(oh sorry man I wasn't looking.)They stood around asking how long we were planning on being in the area.They set their own rope bag right next to my belayer and preceeded to pace back and forth.I finished the climb then we cleaned it and left while wishing that we stayed and climbed the other ones there. Oh well, thanks everyone for the info.

[Charlie]

Earlier this spring, a friend and I went to vantage during the week after class (which we often did since we live 1/2 hour away) There was only one other party in the whole place. Next thing you know they came over to the powerhouse and jumped on the route right next to us which shares some of the holds! They were from seattle so Im assuming they took comfort in that situation because they were used to climbing in the gym? There are 100's of routes at vantage but people do this all the time! Luckily Leavenworth has melted out so I wont have to deal with that place till next winter. The worst part about climbing at vantage is not the poor rock quality or the lack of variety in the routes- its the people that go there.

[chucK]

Yeah, there's a bunch of whiners there.

Chuck

[Paul_detrick]

I think you guys are right, you should all stay home.

[Scott_J]

Vantage has some great climbs and unfortunately some people do tie up routes all fucking day, because they treat it like they are at a gym. If someone asks me politely I will let them use my rope, or I'll pull my stuff as soon as we have finished. Generally the people I climb with do the route and move on to more climbs, be it at Vantage, Leavenworth, Smith, Wild Iris, J Tree, etc. Most climbers are like us, but there are those few that test your patience. I'd like to give one a good poke in the nose, but then again these are the same types that would sue rather than give you a poke in the nose back.

This is not a new problem, hell in the early 70's a friend of mine got into it with a climber while he was belaying me up a very difficult climb in Leavenworth. I guess I was taking too long for the MF'er and he announced that he was going to pull me down. That's when Mike took out a "BIG" hex and offered to decorate his head with it.

I guess some people just have too little time off and they are in such a hurry because life is passing them by so they make up for it by being rude.

[Drederek]

"Can't we all just get along" Rodney King (or was that his mother?)

[peterclimb]

Wow, avalance, tnat sounds like a frustrating situation. Let me share a small story about an experience I had at Frenchman Coulee. I came up to a route on Sunshine Wall and someone had left their top rope. It was a little annoying, but it wasn't a big deal. I asked the people in the immediate area if it was their rope, but no one was around to claim it so I just climbed past it. The owner came back while I was almost to the anchors and he wanted to pull his rope down. I told him that I would prefer it if he would wait until I was at the anchors. So I climbed up and since I was right there, I dropped their rope down for them and then brought their anchors for them. Once down, the guy thanked me and we started talking. In the conversation I mentioned that it wasn't good to leave a top rope unattended on a popular route. The guy said something about climbing with a group of people and that they were planning to come back to the route. I might have been too nice, but I was glad I acted the way I did because when I pulled my rope it got stuck half-way down, and the guy let me use his rope to climb back up to retrieve mine.

Now if I had yelled at the guy when he came back or if I had just pulled his rope down when I was wanting to climb, the whole situation would have been changed. He might have gotten defensive, and it might have turned into a negative confrontation. I think the key to the situation, in my case, was that I was willing to talk to the guy about leaving a rope. Maybe he will think about leaving his rope unattended next time. Maybe not. But I had a fun day climbing.

[kimbchapman]

Bummer. Made me feel all stressed and awkward just reading about it. I've found that those of us who call ourselves climbers do tend to be a little more on the alternative side, and sometimes a 'tude comes with the territory. I think it's unfortunate that because of the threat of physical violence, people are afraid to speak up about their feelings and solve a simple problem. Instead we have these things called bulletin boards.

[Paul_detrick]

Peter, could not have been said better.

If people are new to climbing mayyybbbe they just don't know better,being kool about it,they just might listen.

Paul

[Cpt.Caveman]

Yeah most of you guys then Dr Drill...

I get outright hostile. But I don't hog the routes and other things discussed above. The toss into the scree may have happened if I were there......

[Redpoint]

On a recent trip over to the M&M wall I turned the corner and was greeted by about five guys with a loud "gheto-blaster" and about three routes with hanging ropes. The comment - "Hey, if we just keep the music up then people will not stick around here" did with that, we turned around to attempt another area. Sure the climbing that these guys were doing was great - but the they were such egotistical DICKS that it wasn't worth it. Turn down/off the radio and loose the 'tude this area is for all to enjoy.

[Bob_Clarke]

I do not know the people who write/wrote the guidebooks for the Vantage area. A page about ettiquet could help in these situations. The Smith Rock guide has a paragragh or two clearly stating the local ettiquet and it has helped me from time to time when I've run accross a few people who appear to be very rude by hogging the routes, when in fact they were not aware of ettiquet. It also helps to difuse the situation because they often think someone is trying to bully them off a route. Simply refering to the ettiquet page in the guidebook helps to keep everyone calm. I do speak up when someone is camping on a route or trying to talk to my belayer, and I try my best not to leave the worst impression possible.

[Dru]

ARRRRGH!!! I can't stand it anymore!

"Etiquette" is the correct spelling!!!! You guyts shud lurn to spel moar gud! Yur speling sukks!