mattp Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Is anybody else looking forward to watching the President tonight? What's it going to be? Stay the course ... freedom is on the march ... the chickens who wage the insurgency are beginning to falter ... I never said it was going to be easy... we are more secure now ... and those who question our greatness hold us back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 They can show bush on TV now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camilo Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 The CNN headline for the speech is: "Bush to give 'clear strategy' for Iraq" Only a couple of years overdue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 "Bush to give 'clear strategy' for Iraq" Strategy and reality rarely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Maybe he's going to give the details of his "Our enemies never stop looking for ways to harm the American people, and neither do we" plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Are you attributing forethought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraysovereign Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Don't be so quick to criticize. He's trying to take an insurgency that's in its last throes, and somehow make it last for another 10 or 12 years. That's no simple task, but I think he may be just the man for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkemp Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Strategy and reality rarely agree. Sounds like one of my outings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted June 29, 2005 Author Share Posted June 29, 2005 He was supposed to tell us what the plan was. I didn't hear much in the way of a plan. Did you? (Is: "when they are ready to take over, we'll withdraw" a plan?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 He was supposed to tell us what the plan was. I didn't hear much in the way of a plan. Did you? (Is: "when they are ready to take over, we'll withdraw" a plan?) He was supposed to tell us what the plan was. I didn't hear much in the way of a plan. Did you? He was supposed to tell us what the plan was. I didn't hear much in the way of a plan. Did you? He was supposed to tell us what the plan was. I didn't hear much in the way of a plan. Did you? He was supposed to tell us what the plan was. I didn't hear much in the way of a plan. Did you? He was supposed to tell us what the plan was. I didn't hear much in the way of a plan. Did you? He was supposed to tell us what the plan was. I didn't hear much in the way of a plan. Did you? He was supposed to tell us what the plan was. I didn't hear much in the way of a plan. Did you? MattP asks; are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 "All I ask of my citizens is that they obey my orders as they would the word of god. We are in Iraq to help the Iraqis, because inside every towelhead there is an American trying to get out. It's a hardball world, son. We've gotta keep our heads until this peace craze blows over." (with apologies to Mr. Kubrick) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted June 29, 2005 Author Share Posted June 29, 2005 Fairweather: Originally, he told us we had to attack them before they attacked us, even though he was pretty sure they had few or no weapons because virtually all of his experts told him so and we had something like 400,000 soldiers camped out all around Iraq's borders. He said it would be "easy" to "liberate" Iraq because they'd welcome us as liberators, even though (once again) his generals told him it was not going to be all that easy and we wouldn't be wecomed as liberators. He also said that the oil revenues would pay for the whole thing, but of course this has not happened and the whole mess is the single biggest burden on the American economy that we've known in modern times. Lastly, he assured us that we'd be out of there in short order because, he said, we were not planning to occupy Iraq. Now he tell us that "I told you it wouldn't be easy" and he is trying to talk us into being ready to camp out for - what did Rumsfeld say - "5, 8, 10, 12" years??? Are you suggesting that a pep talk completely without substance is to be applauded? I suppose the answer would be "yes" if there were lots of people who were inspired by his speech, but I bet not all that many actually were. I guess we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? ... That depends on what your definition of 'there' is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal_Con Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Same old same old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Yep, nothing terrible about dissolving the families and lives of millions of US citizens in order to wage a political and corporate kegger in the neighbors' yard. No wait, that's un-American of me. I'm sure Bush is doing the best he can. It's not his fault that it's not enough, it's ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Are you suggesting that a pep talk completely without substance is to be applauded? I suppose the answer would be "yes" if there were lots of people who were inspired by his speech, but I bet not all that many actually were. I guess we'll see. Read your original post...the one you put up here before the speech...then tell me about your open mind. Face it, Matt. Your mind was already made up. Bush sucks...blah, blah, blah. Why post this topic at all? We all know where you stand. MattP, the moderator. Preachin' to the cc.com choir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 What struck me about the speech is that it was aimed soley at the American people as though no one in the rest of the world were listening to it. It was as though the Iraqis were not listening to it. If the war is ever going end we are going to have to get over this Us Versus the Terrorists mindset. Peace is only going to come through negotiation. The Iraqi Government is going to have to persuade the Sunnis that they have a place in society and the government and that joining will be more productive than fighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Fascinating how the Bush team has been able to seamlessly transition from dictatorship/weapons of mass destruction based rhetoric now that the US invasion and occupation has created a "terrorist breeding ground". Speaks to their adaptability as well as the short historical memory of the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I think you have the process in the wrong order. The insurgency will only negotiate when they are convinced the alternative is annihilation. Even then, the high percentage of foreign jihadists involved probably rules out a peaceful settlement. I would refer you to the Paris Accords in 1973. Only after Nixon bombed Hanoi repeatedly did the communists come to the table. Unfortunately, we believed they really wanted peace...but actually we just didn't have the will to finish it. The result was catastrophic. We had our heel on their throat...we should have twisted downward and ended it on our terms. Iraq: I'm beginning to think partitioning the country in an equitable fashion is the only viable solution. But no one in power will ever say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I've got news for you. There isn't anyone we can drop bombs on. There is no convenient "Hanoi". More news for you. The insurgency is most definitely NOT afraid of annhilation. That's why they keep sending suicide bombers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Afraid of being wiped out?? That has to be the most ridiculous assertion. As CBS said, they are more than willing to kill themselves, no matter what the odds. Fighting insane people willing to die for "religous" reasons is a whole different ball game. How do you suggest partitioning up the country? The current problem isn't the devide between the three groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 How do you suggest partitioning up the country? I reckon the plan is: Shiite Sacred Desert Region + Sunni Sacred Desert Region + U.S. National Petroleum Reserve - Iraq. I could be wrong about that though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 My understanding is that it isn't the Iraqis doing the suicide attacks. It's the foreign jihadists. By all accounts, Iraq - and the Sunnis in particular - are some of the most secular arabs in the region. I would conclude that the insurgency is really two groups. Former Bath'ists who want to regain power; and Islamic kooks. The former likely do care about their own skins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Kurdistan Central Iraqi Republic Southern Islamic Republic of Iraq Oil reserves are already equally divided geographically. An agreement would have to be hashed out regarding distribution and access to The Shat'al Arab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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