sony Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 (edited) The new light biners can shave pounds off the hardware a leader carries vs standard biners (40g). Since I'm looking at getting a new trad set, i might as well start right. I'm gonna buy biners to clip those cams and nuts, as well maybe as new biners to put on runners and clip the rope... So here's an attempt to collect a mini review of those from the community before I plunge. Many light biners are smaller than standard biners and include exotic technology. For those who've used these biners I have qustions... Question: - Any usage difficulty? say with single, double ropes, slings, cams, nuts, etc? - Any safety issue? premature wear of ropes or gear from smaller biner contact width or narrower size, etc. Poor gate design opens, or causes frequent biner crossloads... - Any place where the biners can be bought for cheaper than I list, even in bulk if needed? Here's a list of light biners I've found sold around, with specs, and some of the pricing I've seen. Specs might be wrong - so you can correct. If you do or add usefull specs, then please copy the table in your post and update it. Last edit: June 9, 2005 Gram Spec Brand, name, Best price ------------------------------------------------ 28g S NO WI - CAMP nano-wires $6.10/10 30g R NO WI - Trango superfly wire $6.75/10 32g S KL WI - DMM Shield $9.85/6 33g S NO WI - DMM Spectre $9.50/10 33g S NO WI - DMM Spectre colors $9.95/10 33g S KL WI - WildCountry helium $10.10/10 36g R NO WI - DMM prowire anodized $8.50/10 35g R NO WI - Trango lightweigth wire gate $6.50/10 36g S NO WI - BD neutrino $7.50/10 37g R NO wI - OP Doval (oval biner) $7.35 or $6.62/6 37g R NO RE - Kong Helium $10ish ... 49g R KL RE - Petzl Spirit $9ish (for reference) S: Small size biner R: Regular size biner NO: Notch gate (old style, catches on gear) KL: Keylock gate WI: Wire gate SO: Solid gate Edited June 9, 2005 by sony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogdortheBurninator Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 I have a bunch of superfly biners, and have used neutrinos. For the price, superflies are awesome. I like them more than neutrinos regardless of price. Alot of the other ones seem over priced unless you really want the keylock or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Superfly wires. Agree with trogdor, better than neutrinos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 I love the Superflys. I have some of the Superfly Lockers also. They weigh 41g. I would get a set of burly biners for your cragging rack, maybe for the pieces you use alot. I try to conserve the use of my lightweight ones for when the weight really counts. On the flip side, I woulnd't be caught with a heavy biner on an alpine climb. light biners save a lot of weight, as do the dyneema slings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 i use dmm prowires and kong heliums. they both rock ... but not for aid. i find that for the most part i really don't like ovals except for racking. i would also give a thumbs down to the neutrino - they just don't feel right. find something that you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sony Posted June 9, 2005 Author Share Posted June 9, 2005 (edited) Updated table. Edited June 9, 2005 by sony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Neutrinos aren't very good biners! Omega Pacific Dovals are bigger, same weight, less money, more usefull shape. Trango Lightweight Wiregates are cheaper, larger, and equal weight. Trango superflies are bigger, 6 grams less, and equal $$ CAMP nano-wires are the same size, and 6 grams less, and less $$ WC heliums are bigger, keylocking, 3 grams less, but more $$ DMM Shield is bigger, keylocking, 4 grams less, but more $$ DMM Spectre is bigger, fancy colors, 3 grams less, but more $$$ Neutrino's aren't especially good compared to the above models, and English made carabiners are fancy, but costly. Considering weight, price, and size, there is always a better biner than a neutrino, for any use. Plus BD gear is so popular, buck the trend. P.S. Scot'teryx was recently selling superfly wiregates for under $6. give him a PM or email. http://www.questalb.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Hilarious how these biner threads get all preachy and religious. Neutrinos are small but if you can get them for cheap they are not the end of the world. They work fine. They look funny as quickdraws though. Like little toys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scot'teryx Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Quick Plug Buy Trango Superfly's A Sweet Package of Superflys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Neutrinos aren't very good biners! Damn! That's the problem! I used neutrinos for the rope end of my alpine draws on our last trip up OS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_m Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I use WC Heliums and DMM Spectres and haven't looked back - Best biners out there hands down - You do need a small loan to outfit yourself however... I just swore off new clothing and $5 coffee for a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Crash Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I have the predecessors to the DMM Shield, the Prowire. I love these biners, but the nose is too wide for old bolt hangers or some chains. The Shield being 9 grams lighter than the Prowire, and with a thinner nose, I'll go for the Shield for my next lightweight biners. The WC Helium doesn't seem bad either; comparing strength and gate opening between the two might help decide. I wish Petzl made a lightweight keylock wiregate. By the way, your list notes the DMM Spectre as a keylock, but it is not. The Shield is. drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 my bf really likes the dovals his sister gave him. they feel pretty good and might be a nice compromise if you want some oval-ish biners without going totally oval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrythellama Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 so what are the specific dislikes people have of the neutrinos? i have never had a problem with mine, wheter it be ice or rock climbing. i know some of the people here dont like black diamond because they listen to others opinions more then actually going out and using their gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 so what are the specific dislikes people have of the neutrinos? I don't like them compared to what else is out there. Neutrinos themselves are fine, but when you can buy better carabiners for less $$, or lighter/bigger carabiners for equal $$, Neutrinos don't look so hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 so what are the specific dislikes people have of the neutrinos? Too small for my gorilla hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_m Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Dovals are the devil biner. Well not really - they a great "utility" biner at anchors and such BUT under no circumstances should they be utilized in a place that requires clipping them while climbing. Because of their uniform shape it hard to tell which is the OPEN side. Not fun when you're locked off in a powerful lieback sketching to clip in... Yikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Because of their uniform shape it hard to tell which is the OPEN side. that's why i hate climbing with ovals. what a waste of precious climbing time when you have to flip the biner around. the neutrinos feel like keychain biners. i believe their opening is smaller than a "normal" biner as well. and maybe it's just me but it's weird to have different sized biners on your rack (aside from lockers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I use neutrinos for the gear side of a sling, rather than for clipping the rope. I think that their small size is an asset. They take up less room in your pack. Also, Neutrinos are sometimes the only carabiner whos nose is small enough to fit through some chains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crotch Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Dovals - Crappy gate. The spring tension declines much faster than with other wiregates. I've got more than a few where the gate will stay in the fully open position. Plan on retiring them every few years. Superfly - Very light- so light that they tend to rotate into a minor axis configuration when used as rope-end biners. Neutrino - Small but robust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 The Mammut equivalents to the Trango Lightweights, for $5.25 at Pro Mountain Sports and come in at 36 gm. I've got a whole bunch and love em, a bit of a narrow rope bearing radius but a really nice clip, while lightweight, cheap, and a nice size for racking. Maybe not full size, but not the mini's like neutrinos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 Superfly - Very light- so light that they tend to rotate into a minor axis configuration when used as rope-end biners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 SMC ovals with colored marking tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sony Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 Awesome! Thanks to Scott'Teryx, I recieved 30 superfly biners today at a great price. Buy bulk!!! My 22" trad draws lost 32% of their weight (dyneema with petzl spirit and simond biners). I dumped 3 draws on the kitchen balance: 260gr vs 385gr... that's ONE pound per 6 draws! The gate feels good and solid. It needs a little more pressure than a Petzl spirit. The rope and sling supports are nice and wide, the biner making a T shape. There is a groove for the rope at the base of the I beam. The biner is similar in shape to the mammut wiregate, but a different shine to it and 5gr less. Same opening size. It is 1/2 a cm shorter than a petzl spirit, but the gate opens wider because it is wire-thin instead of a solid gate. Note: my petzl spirits are 10 years old models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbconlin Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I have a bunch of neutrinos which I use to rack cams. I like them for this application but do not feel they are a good all around biner. I have a handful of Trango SuperFly biners. They are awesome all around biners and will be my biner of choice in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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