Lost #1 Camalot - 5/28 Castle Rock

[matt_m]

Somewhere on Lower Castle in the Catapult area - No idea where it went - Didn't see it fall, 99% sure partner didn't leave it behind - It just went poof! into thin air! My guess is it unclipped and partner (first time outside) just didnt notice - happen to the best of us - Good carma to anyone who fids it... and PMs me

[num1mc]

It was in the crack, with a caribiner hanging from it. Your partner just left it. Beat the shit out of your partner. My pal has it. I would say "a fool and his climbing shit are soon parted".

[fenderfour]

Look everybody! I found a dick in the forum!

[num1mc]

Fender4 and Matt M,

 

My buddy made the first post here, but I'm the guy with Matt M's cam.

 

I don't believe the first post here is obnoxious at all. Matt went climbing with a partner who due to their newbie status was unable to pull a piece of gear at the overhang on catapult. What they did was pull everything they could; that being the quickdraw and all carabiners. When I found the piece it was a lone #1 camalot which I pulled with one hand and a little jiggling while on lead. Apparently when ask about the piece of gear they made up some story about how they didn't know where the piece of gear went.

 

I've been climbing a while. The rules of the game as I learned them is that if you don't pull your gear it's booty to the next party who climbs the route. We didn't have none of this internet forum lost and found bullshit back in the day, but never the less if you leave gear it's free to anyone who can retrieve it. You wont see me in this forum crying about gear I couldn't retrieve.

 

Matt M, I've left gear behind too, so I'm part of the karmic cycle or whatever hippy dippy shit you want to spout. The fact is that you could have gone back to get your gear if your partner had come clean with the facts right away. What happened is that your partner lied to you when questioned. Here are my suggestions:

 

1) If your partner is a guy; then scream at him and or beat the shit out of him.

 

2) If your partner is a women you're trying to screw (or your girlfriend ) file this information away; obviously she is someone who will lie when convienient.

 

3) If your partner is your wife... you poor sorry bastard

[num1mc]

click here

[Billygoat]

Actually FF, you found two: The other one was poking out like a turtlehead in the ass of the first one. Easy to miss

 

 

" 2) If your partner is a women you're trying to screw (or your girlfriend ) file this information away; obviously she is someone who will lie when convienient."

 

I sense pain in that. Sounds like you are speaking from experience

 

[Blake]

I'd say that if you were following them up the crack and you saw them leave it and you cleaned it, you ought to offer it back to them. IF they tried to remove it and couldn't get it, then I guess you have the right to not offer it back, but they (and everyone else) has the right to think you are a jerk as well.

[Blake]

By the way guys, if you really want another free cam that some noob gaper couldn't clean, check out this one: http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/462414/an/0/page/0#462414

 

[Billygoat]

It's up there on the LAME FUCK scale that these two guys are so shallow that they need to blatantly rationalize the fact that they are too cheap and selfish to return the booty, by attempting to slander the character of the two guys that own/lost the cam.

 

Pretty weak

[Cobra_Commander]

Wow, unbridled parsimony with a dash of vindictive diatribe. Impressive post.

 

You have the right to keep others' trash. But if you do, just shut up and keep it rather than rub it in their faces.

 

You have the opportunity to help out a fellow human being, to make them happy at no cost to you. Maybe you should take advantage of such a deal.

[billcoe]

 

 

I would want to know. I'd thank num1mc for being honest and telling the rest of the story. He's right in his advice too. That gear is gone and you have no right to get it back. If you want to climb with people that treat your expensive gear like trash, you deserver to lose it IMO.

 

Sorry for your loss, BUT.....

 

The moral of this story is DON'T CLIMB WITH NEWBIES. Especially one that will lie to you. The dude probably claims to be a great belayer too.

 

If it was me, I'd give it back. I have had stuff like that happen and have returned it if I knew who it was. But num1mc is under no obligation to do so.

 

Chalk it up to a learning experince that didn't cost you your life, you owe num1mc a word of thanks for both being honest and giving you good advice IMO.

 

Regards:

 

Bill

[texplorer]

AAARRRRRRGGGGGHHH Booty!!!!!!!

[Billygoat]

The moral of this story is DON'T CLIMB WITH NEWBIES.

 

 

Some great advice there.

 

I bet you think of yourself as really hardcore, huh Bill. Harcore/Hardman, another dick basically. They're coming out of the woodworks...

[Blake]

IF the second lied about not being able to clean the gear, then that is a pretty trashy thing to do. However, if nobody climbs with new climbers, there'd be more enjuries, fewer awesome new routes, and the sport would die off.

[ivan]

the only solution is to cut the cam in half and give each party a portion!

 

if the involved parties will simply send the cam to me, i'l handle the rest.

[Billygoat]

Before we have another round of slagging:

 

Take the booty. If you want to keep it, shut up about it. Taking a piss on them and insinuating things you know nothing about is not funny.

 

That link to some court case is over the top. What does that have to do with anything?

[dberdinka]

The internet has certainly foisted somewhat of a moral dilema onto the traditional booty ethic of "finders keepers loosers weepers".

 

Spray all over someone elses loss is weak, snagging and keeping booty is not. In fact I think it's a fine part of the climbing tradition and something to look forward too.

 

Years ago I lost a cam at the crux of a multipitch climb when my follower could not clean it. It of course probably disappeared the next day. Earlier this spring I had the delight of finding and bootying someone elses stuck cam at the same place. Karmatic cycle complete!

 

This forum should be dumped. At the very least, as someone else suggested, don't read it if you've been bootying gear and you won't have ethical dilemnas to resolve!

[minx]

i owe someone a cam b/c i couldn't clean it. alas, i left it for someone else knowing that i won't see it again. imo opinion that cam isn't "lost" per se so i didn't post it in this forum. i know right where it is. i chose to leave it there.

[billcoe]

The moral of this story is DON'T CLIMB WITH NEWBIES.

 

 

Some great advice there.

 

I bet you think of yourself as really hardcore, huh Bill. Harcore/Hardman, another dick basically. They're coming out of the woodworks...

 

 

You don't know me Billygoat, but I can tell you I don't appreciate the personal attack as it's unwarrented. Take a chill pill will ya.

 

I'm hardly hardcore, but after 30 some years of climbing I see begineers making mistakes all the time, this is just another example,I learned this the hard way unfortunatly.

 

Again, I'd return it, but this guy is under no obligation, in fact, it's a cheap lesson. I found a schweet HB quadcam on the crux pitch on Serenity Crack in Yos just last week. Came right out. I kept it, it's in perfect working condition - but would return it if somebody spoke up. Why somebody left it to trash up the route is beyond me though, it was an easy stance right before the crux, and we weren't going to leave it behind, it came right out. No matter is you continue to Sons of Yesterday - like we did, or rappel from the top of that pitch which is where Serenity ends, you can rap right over this piece. Interesting no?

 

Anyway, no need to call me a dick. I'm curious what your real name is.

 

Bill

[num1mc]

Billygoat, I'm not attempting to justify anything. The ethics I grew up with are that if you leave gear on a route you lose it to whoever can retrieve it. I've lost gear by this rule, and I've worked at unsticking left behind cams only to give up in the end. In this case I scored and got a cam.

 

I agree that the, "other num1mc's," post where he googled some other Matt M with an alchoholic wife is a bit over the top (though funny).

 

My only reason for posting is that Matt's partner failed to come clean about what happened to the cam. Matt deserves to know that his partner wasn't honest with him, so that he can either confront him/her and or choose not to climb with him/her in the future.

[Billygoat]

Bill Coe, my name is Bill Lewis I live in the San Juan Islands. I would definitly like to stop the slagging, and I apologize for my reaction.

 

I don't like the attack foisted upon Matt M and his partner, which you seem to support by the tone of your post. I can also see that you mean well through your cautionary tale. If one reads Matt M's post, clearly it says his partner was new to outdoor climbing; maybe he got distracted and unclipped but forgot the piece. We're talking the first pitch of Catapult, below Saber ledge and the step out, correct? I'm not sure why they did not check it out on the walk back out, since rapping the route is not done.

 

What is not clear is that Matt says a caribiner was left on it. Num1 or his partner says there was no caribiner. Perhaps Matt's partner could not clean it and lied about it, hiding the caribiner. What I don't get is that Num1 speaks as tho they spoke with Matt M and his partner and that they lied about what happened. If that were the case and it was me, I, (unless they were dicks), would have given them the cam back and called them on their lies. If I kept it, I would have not mentioned it again. Which leads to the other unclear portion: The list of how to deal with said partner depending on whether it was a guy/GF/or wife. That makes me believe num1 and pard did not encounter Matt and his pard.

 

I can see, however, num1mc and pard seeing Matt's post and wanting to "clear the air" or "vent their spleens" as it turned out. The tone was pretty angry and I thought unjustified and went to places that had nothing to do with the incident.

 

Num1 and partner have every right to the booty but are out of line when they attack his personal relationships, esp the link (which would have been funny if I was drunk and didn't give a shit).

 

A lot of unclear shit, some cautionary tales, but definite attacks. I retract mine.

 

Cheers

 

Bill Lewis

[billcoe]

No sweat Bill L, I apologise if I offended anybody as well. Sometimes words can be read as angry and offensive when they were thought in the mind gently.

 

I love to climb, and if I'm not doing it, and its been wet as hell lately, I want to talk about it or fondle my gear and think about it! Definatly a sickness, and I think it should be a happy thing.

 

I just got a box from Mountain gear (I'm looking at it on my desk- it just came in) full of Leeper cam hooks and gotta go do what I love 2nd best. (I just discovered them when Andrew Trzynka loaned me his pieces to lead the West Face of Monkee crack, WOW! Simple little pieces of metal, amazing stuff. Who knew, gotta go fondle.

 

Warm regards:

 

Bill

 

 

 

______________________________

 

You're still OK for a goat:-) - and it's an admirable thing you're looking out for your friends.

[Camilo]

Edit: No reason to talk about this.

Edited June 7, 2005 by Camilo

[Billygoat]

Aid pieces are just a little more sensual for some reason.

 

Gear fondling would be an entirely different thread...

[matt_m]

Full reply coming shortly...