Cost of Iraq War

[chucK]

This deserves it's own thread:

 

Cobra Commander wrote

perhaps they should consider this study in comparison: http://costofwar.com/

 

great website.

 

For the cost of the Iraq War (so far) we could give every child in US full health coverage for a year, probably more ( > 100 million child-years of health coverage).

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

This deserves it's own thread:

 

Cobra Commander wrote

perhaps they should consider this study in comparison: http://costofwar.com/

 

great website.

 

For the cost of the Iraq War (so far) we could give every child in US full health coverage for a year, probably more ( > 100 million child-years of health coverage).

 

 

This is such a dishonest rhetorical tactic - as if doing nothing in Iraq would not have "cost" us. Just as doing nothing before WWI and WWII cost us - big time. Bury your head in the sand and wish away all the problems... isolationism, yeah, that works.

[jon]

For the cost of the war, everyone in Bellevue could have a Humvee and have enough gas to drive it for a year as well as pay for insurance.

[olyclimber]

Well, maybe 11 months.

[Jim]

I think this already being done, from the looks of it.

[chucK]

Well, I believe that if we did "nothing" in Iraq we would be much better off today not even considering the monetary repercussions.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Well, I believe that if we did "nothing" in Iraq we would be much better off today not even considering the monetary repercussions.

 

The status quo had a non-zero cost - enforcing no-fly zones, stationing troops, playing cat and mouse games with Hussein as he repeatedly moved troops towards Kuwait, then withdrew. And lest we forget, the reason OBL turned Al Qaeda's collective sights on the US was the "disgrace" of having infidels stationed on the hallowed soil of Mohammed's home land.

[foraker]

Well, I believe that if we did "nothing" in Iraq we would be much better off today not even considering the monetary repercussions.

 

The status quo had a non-zero cost - enforcing no-fly zones, stationing troops, playing cat and mouse games with Hussein as he repeatedly moved troops towards Kuwait, then withdrew. And lest we forget, the reason OBL turned Al Qaeda's collective sights on the US was the "disgrace" of having infidels stationed on the hallowed soil of Mohammed's home land.

 

so, what you're saying is: despite trying to hang it all on Clinton, the real culprit for OBL's hatred of America is GWB's father, King George I. Gee, there's a surprise......

[chucK]

OK, point taken. Lower my estimate to only 80 million kids who could be supplied full healthcare.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

the real culprit for OBL's hatred of America is GWB's father

 

I could only expect such an oversimplification and gratuitous attack from a mental midget such as yourself

 

The point is not the "source" of OBL's hatred. The question is whether the US chooses to ignore its enemies or act to counter them. And of course, "how" to do it.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

OK, point taken. Lower my estimate to only 80 million kids who could be supplied full healthcare.

 

Yeah, as if there are 80 million kids who have no health care right now

 

I love how the supposedly starving, suffering masses magically appear in left-wing rhetoric when a Republican administration is in power, and disappear when a Democratic administration is in power - irrespective of any substantive difference in funding of government bureaucracies.

Edited May 18, 2005 by KaskadskyjKozak

[Stonehead]

I don’t know if it’s my imagination or what, but I seem to recall that there were naysayers and complainers during the Space Mission of the Sixties. “Why don’t we quit spending money on ‘pie-in-the-sky' projects when there are so many pressing problems right here on Earth to take care of, like overpopulation, environmental pollution, war, poverty, etc.”

 

Maybe it’s the influence of the military-industrial complex?

 

Ok, you wanna be happy as an American consumer and taxpayer? You could replace the cost of the Iraq war with just about any large-scale government spending, for instance, the Space Shuttle program. I mean, you spend hundreds of millions (billions?) of dollars and you damn well better get some consumer oriented spin-offs. Damn it, we’re paying for the thing!

 

Well,Teflon, sure is sweet.

 

Necessity is the mother of invention. Well, I say that necessity is often an afterthought, that the original impetus was more sinister in origin, say developing a better spying method.

 

So anyway, the dividend for a Saddam-less Iraq is a safer Middle East?? That’s one possibility but I suspect it’s closer to the lines suggested by Gotterdammerung, that the plot actually concerns access to oil. I mean, imminent threats…doesn’t Iran and North Korea today appear to be more imminent than Iraq was pre-invasion? But, of course, our leaders have to have a pretext to abandon the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, don’t they?

 

But in all reality, this is a changing world. And, maybe these changes are for the best, the best for our survival in a seemingly hostile world. First of all, I gotta say to those along the likes of j-b----Stop trusting the ‘old guard’. It doesn’t matter if you’re Right or Left. You’re going to get lied to by both sides. They know that having real power is never having to apologize.

[Cobra_Commander]

I could only expect such an oversimplification and gratuitous attack from a mental midget such as yourself

 

I'm not sure if you actually want anyone to give your opinions a shred of interest or respect, or at least believe that you are over the age of 16, but this doesn't help if you do.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I mean, imminent threats…doesn’t Iran and North Korea today appear to be more imminent than Iraq was pre-invasion?

 

Seems to me that N. Korea can really only pose an imminent thread to S. Korea primarily, and possibly Japan or China in the mid-term.

 

The lesson from Iraq is that the burden of proof regarding an "imminent threat" must be much higher.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I'm not sure if you actually want anyone to give your opinions a shred of interest or respect, or at least believe that you are over the age of 16, but this doesn't help if you do.

 

I'm not interested in converting the stupid and blind. There are some people with interesting, opposing POVs. Foraker is not one of them.

[Stonehead]

Are we not in a mutual security treaty with Japan where we promised to protect them under our nuclear umbrella?

 

Need I also remind you that we fought a few wars in East/Southeast Asia because we believed it to be in our strategic interests? Is that no longer the case?

[chucK]

I think the lesson from Iraq is that wars can be quite costly. If you're going to start one, then there should a better reason than, "it'll be easy, so what the fuck?"

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Are we not in a mutual security treaty with Japan where we promised to protect them under our nuclear umbrella?

 

I think it's time to reconsider that treaty.

 

Need I also remind you that we fought a few wars in East/Southeast Asia because we believed it to be in our strategic interests? Is that no longer the case?

 

I don't know. What would the impact be of S. Korea falling to N. Korea right now? Would that really impact the U.S. in any meaningful way?

 

The cold war threat of international communist expansion seems to have evaporated with the demise of the USSR. I'm not sure that China has that goal in mind - although regional, economic hegemony seems to be a goal of theirs. A strong Japan could be a reasonable counter to their threat, even at the expense of granting them an exception to nuclear nonproliferation.

[chucK]

I love how the supposedly starving, suffering masses magically appear in left-wing rhetoric when a Republican administration is in power, and disappear when a Democratic administration is in power - irrespective of any substantive difference in funding of government bureaucracies.

 

Now who's engaging in cheap rhetorical tricks?

 

You seem to be implying that there is no substantive difference in funding outlays between this administration and the previous!

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Now who's engaging in cheap rhetorical tricks?

 

You seem to be implying that there is no substantive difference in funding outlays between this administration and the previous!

 

Is there? W/r/t to "health insurance for children"?

 

Your comment about the costs of the war implies that there is some huge, unaddressed need in domestic spending, and that said need materialized under the current administration. This is typical rhetoric from the left when in opposition: manufacture a social crisis, and demagogue it ad nauseaum. When in power, the former opposition summarily shuts up - the social crisis is gone.

[Stonehead]

Are we not in a mutual security treaty with Japan where we promised to protect them under our nuclear umbrella?

 

I think it's time to reconsider that treaty.

 

Need I also remind you that we fought a few wars in East/Southeast Asia because we believed it to be in our strategic interests? Is that no longer the case?

 

I don't know. What would the impact be of S. Korea falling to N. Korea right now? Would that really impact the U.S. in any meaningful way?

 

The cold war threat of international communist expansion seems to have evaporated with the demise of the USSR. I'm not sure that China has that goal in mind - although regional, economic hegemony seems to be a goal of theirs. A strong Japan could be a reasonable counter to their threat, even at the expense of granting them an exception to nuclear nonproliferation.

 

Perhaps, it is time to reconsider. But it's never happen.

 

Recall the riots in China a few weeks ago, where it was originally claimed that the rioting was caused by reports of Japanese revisionism in their school textbooks. The Chinese government officially denied any involvement in inciting the riots. Yet, the truth of the matter appears to be that the Chinese wanted to smear the Japanese government in the world arena for petitioning for a seat on the United Nations Security Council. There was complicity of the Chinese government, and any statements coming out of their bureacracy must be taken with a grain of salt. Remember, Tianamen?

 

But anyway, I digress. We're stuck. Just like we're stuck with Taiwan.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

The major difference in outlays between this administration and the previous administration is that the previous administration was actually interested in being able to pay for its outlays, and successfully did so. Our grandchildren will still be haunted by Bush's legacy as they work to pay off the obscene debt run up by this imbecile.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Perhaps, it is time to reconsider. But it's never happen.

 

Recall the riots in China a few weeks ago, where it was originally claimed that the rioting was caused by reports of Japanese revisionism in their school textbooks. The Chinese government officially denied any involvement in inciting the riots. Yet, the truth of the matter appears to be that the Chinese wanted to smear the Japanese government in the world arena for petitioning for a seat on the United Nations Security Council. There was complicity of the Chinese government, and any statements coming out of their bureacracy must be taken with a grain of salt. Remember, Tianamen?

 

But anyway, I digress. We're stuck. Just like we're stuck with Taiwan.

 

So how does China and Japan's disputes affect US national security? This is where our problems seem to come: acting as world policeman/enforcer/watchdog/whatever you want to call it.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Your comment about the costs of the war implies that there is some huge, unaddressed need in domestic spending, and that said need materialized under the current administration. This is typical rhetoric from the left when in opposition: manufacture a social crisis, and demagogue it ad nauseaum. When in power, the former opposition summarily shuts up - the social crisis is gone.

 

The good Doctor hates to rain on your fiscally conservative parade, but there IS a huge, unadressed need in domestic spending, in the form of educational funding. DFA's wife works at a nonprofit school, and they have watched their funding (part of which comes from the public schools) get macheted under the current administration. Perhaps you can stomach and/or justify the flushing of billions of dollars on this bullshit war (which has demonstrably INCREASED terrorism WORLDWIDE) while a generation of children gets a subpar education, but Dr. Flash Amazing sure as hell can't.

[chucK]

So are you saying, like global warming, that this "crisis" of a large number of Americans not being able to afford adequate healthcare is just partisan rhetoric?

 

I seem to remember a certain program championed by Hillary during Clinton's second administration that was defeated by the Republicans.

 

Perhaps the left was not criticizing the spending plans of that administration because they were actually trying to do something about it!

 

 

Maybe there's a link on that costs of war that would show how much Americans like you (and/or your children) could save on your tax bill if we weren't pouring money into a dumb war. Perhaps that would interest you a lot more.