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catbirdseat

Ways to Prevent Extension When Using a Cordellette

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A friend of mine showed me a different way of doing things. You first set up the cordellette like a sliding X, by introducing a twist on each of the inside pairs of cord. Then, you tie a clove hitch to the carabiner attached to each piece of pro. If any one piece fails, there should be no extension. Because of the clove hitches, the anchor doesn't redirect itself automatically the way a Sliding X would, but it seems to me that it would redirect to a small extent because of slight give in the clove hitches, etc.

 

Anyone care to comment on the pluses and minuses of this method? The first thing that comes to mind is that it takes longer to set up.

 

A big problem is now you have strength reductions at every single piece due to the clove hitches. And I'm not entirely convinced that each strand of the clove hitch will be loaded symmetrically. So now you need to go ask yourself what strength cord you're using and does a 30% reduction in strength still afford you a comfortable margin of safety?

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All I want to know is, where are the vector diagrams, topological theorems, and appeals to various mathematical postulates to reinforce one's points.

 

The last conversation that we had that had the same techno-wankage to relevance ratio was the discussion of normal forces on ice-screw loading with floating versus fixed handles.

 

 

FWIW I'm not sure how to resolve the shock-loading versus equalizing conundrum with a cordalette, but it probably involves sizing up the pieces you've got and the overall situation that you are in and deciding which approach is less likely to result in death.

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I think that setting up an anchor with multiple pieces is an inexact science, and you can never truly equalize pieces AND have no extension. Usually you must take into account the quality of the pro you've placed, and where the force of a fall will be coming from. Having just one way, and doing it the same every time is not wise IMO.

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I want to have my cake and eat it too. That's what we all want. Build your anchor like a Sliding X and include a shock absorbing component to deal with extension. Place some sort of Screamer device in the system. grin.gif

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go buy one of these and let us know how it works out ...

 

alpineequalizer.jpg

 

Alpine Equalizer

Our new Alpine Equalizer is the perfect solution for quickly equalizing up to three placements. Based on the R&D work done by Jim Cormier at Cormier Mountaineering, we've updated it, lightened it and adapted it to work great in any setting. Use it on ice or in the alpine for a speedy anchor, carry it on multi-pitch bolt routes for a quick anchor at the belays or use it as a super long runner. While ideally suited as a self-adjusting anchor system, it can be made non-extending by tying an overhand knot in the center loop (shown) or by clove-hitching at each protection point. Available in 2 lengths; the 6’ version is ideal for most 3-anchor set-ups while the 3’ foot one saves weight and bulk and can be extended with runners or draws.

 

 

3 ft/$28.95 6 ft/$33.95

Toss This In My Pack

Strength: 25kN

Weight: 3’ - 74gm (2.7 oz)

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go buy one of these and let us know how it works out ...

 

alpineequalizer.jpg

 

anchor_sys.jpg

 

Rigging for Rescue did extensive testing of a very similar rescue anchor system (above) and determined it does not load distribute very well at all. They even substituted the rings/biners for pulleys, yet still, it was unacceptable. The replacement? The 8mm cordelette, useful for all kinds of other stuff too.

 

The system looks good when you slide loads around on it, but when you hook up the load cells to the pro, things looked a little different.

 

the 6/7mm cordelette simple, light, time-tested, multi-use, what more do you want... I am all for you guys beta-testing new things though, let me know.

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I got a big tied runner of that mammut super light shit. Its way lighter than a cordellette. And that fancy ass equalizer product is soooooooo gay it hurts.

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Right I guess my point was people are not dying from cordelettes blowing because they do not totally equalize. They are dying when they are unaware of what reality is showing them, and they try to hang their lives off it. That's all.

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Back to original post - how will using sliding X and clove hitch prevent extension? When piece blows, slack will still pull through sliding X, resulting in extension. 2 pages debating meaningless question!

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Back to original post - how will using sliding X and clove hitch prevent extension? When piece blows, slack will still pull through sliding X, resulting in extension. 2 pages debating meaningless question!
Try setting one up and then get back to us.

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Back to original post - how will using sliding X and clove hitch prevent extension? When piece blows, slack will still pull through sliding X, resulting in extension. 2 pages debating meaningless question!
Try setting one up and then get back to us.

 

hey fuck you too pantywaist, now answer my question!

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I got a big tied runner of that mammut super light shit. Its way lighter than a cordellette. And that fancy ass equalizer product is soooooooo gay it hurts.

 

Word.

 

Actually, I kind of thought the idea was cool but I wouldn't want anyone to see me using it or carying it around. Sort of like a stick clip....

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Its way lighter than a cordellette. And that fancy ass equalizer product is soooooooo gay it hurts.

 

Where does it hurt, good buddy?

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If you have a cordellette(i.e. a full loop of cord), you can tie a self-equalizing figure eight knot with it, like you normal use for rope anchors. This way you have 2-3 self-equalizing points and still have two clip in points.

Tieing clove hitches on each piece with a cordellete would take too much time.

I normally use the rope or a Webb-O-lette. The loops on the webb-O-lette that connect to two of the peices can help minimize the sliding.

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In the clove hitch idea I would need to mock up a sample. My initial thought is that it would take less of the cordelette to tie three biner clove hitches. On a marginal anchor I sometimes find that by the time I get the knot tied the angle of the anchor points is too large. If this takes much less cord It may reduce the hassle of extending stuff.

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Read John Long's "More Climbing Anchors" fruit.gif

 

I have that book, and I just constructed and anchor using the clove hitches, it doesn't equalize worth shit. Like the idea though, maybe there is a variation of it...

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Back to original post - how will using sliding X and clove hitch prevent extension? When piece blows, slack will still pull through sliding X, resulting in extension. 2 pages debating meaningless question!
Try setting one up and then get back to us.

 

hey fuck you too pantywaist, now answer my question!

You are wrong. It does prevent extension. If you would just try it, you would see that. However, it does effectively put all the load on one strand of cord between the two remaining pieces, rather than four strands as with the normal tie-off.

 

I didn't want to say whether I liked it or not. In fact, I don't like it. It takes too much time. It does SELF-equalize a little bit if you adjust it right, but it takes too much fiddling around.

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