From J-B's Gospel..

[foraker]

of course, throwing money at anything doesn't solve the problem, but it usually makes a few well-connected souls very happy.

[Fairweather]

Like public employee's unions?

 

And we've thrown trillions at poverty since LBJ's great society, and where has it gotten us? Maybe government isn't necessarily the answer?

[foraker]

i'm not saying it is, but neither is giving away trillions of dollars to corporations and farmers. not to mention allowing polluting industries and large corporations to 'self-regulate' when they have dismal record of doing the right thing. sometimes government is the answer.

[Jim]

Actually 6 weeks this year. I'll not be thinking about you while climbing in the Dolomites for 4 weeks this summer.

 

Let me guess... a government job? It's interesting that many of those in the public sector take 6 weeks vacation and work a straight 40 (or less) hour week... all-the-while touting their educational credentials as entitlement and claiming there's no place in their department to save taxpayer dollars. Then, hop aboard a fuel guzzling 747 to climb in Europe whilst they decry those other Americans who drive SUV's and 'live too well'! uking graemlin:

 

How much vacation time do you think those in the private sector average, Jim? You know...those poor saps who pay the taxes that go toward your salary and cushy lifestyle. Do you really believe that your place in this society entitles you to such hypocrisy?

 

How's the size 10 taste? I'm in the private sector.

[minx]

Actually 6 weeks this year. I'll not be thinking about you while climbing in the Dolomites for 4 weeks this summer.

 

Let me guess... a government job? It's interesting that many of those in the public sector take 6 weeks vacation and work a straight 40 (or less) hour week... all-the-while touting their educational credentials as entitlement and claiming there's no place in their department to save taxpayer dollars. Then, hop aboard a fuel guzzling 747 to climb in Europe whilst they decry those other Americans who drive SUV's and 'live too well'! uking graemlin:

 

How much vacation time do you think those in the private sector average, Jim? You know...those poor saps who pay the taxes that go toward your salary and cushy lifestyle. Do you really believe that your place in this society entitles you to such hypocrisy?

 

Also; can I have please two weeks of your vacation time?

 

wow-that's pretty judgemental. why would you assume that 6 weeks of vacation equates to public employment? my husband works for the public sector and has less vacation time than i do. should public employees be compensated less adequately than the equivalent position in the private sector?

 

i work in the private sector. part of my compensation is a generous vacation package. my vacation time also grows with my years of service at the company. with out a whole lot of saving of vacation days and a little planning, i could easily take 6 consecutive weeks off. one of the reasons i have turned down better paying positions was vacation time. we all have different priorities. mine is free time.

[b-rock]

Perhaps Fairweather is just regretting the choices he's made in life, 15 years of 50-60 hour work weeks sounds like it'd take it's toll. Live to work or work to live.

[willstrickland]

Whoops.

 

The vibrant top note of toe jam, followed by rolling hints of aged leather, salt, and a hint of dogshit. This fine Shoeraz goes nicely with baked Crow.

 

I work for DOD. I get 19.5 days vacation with 10 years of service. First 3 years it's 13 days, 4-15yrs 19.5 days, over 15yrs you get 26 days.

 

Is that excessive? Maybe, maybe not. I know that they would have a real real hard time retaining engineers and other specific skill set occupations without good benefits because the pay, even with "Shortage specialty pay scales" for certain occupational classes above and beyond the normal GS scale, is not in line with the private sector in those occupations.

[j_b]

Good J_B! You're getting it and even thinking the idea was your own.

 

perhaps you'd like ro reread my first post in this thread and acknowledge my comment about your disingenuous use of average income as a measure of prosperity ...

 

But you seem to be suggesting that a comparison of say China and let's say Monaco is meaningful!

 

ok fine you didn't like my extreme example. so here is real comparative decile income data from the mid-90's (sorry folks he made me do it)

 

canada US UK sweden germany

6003 3972 4731 4736 5225

9720 7725 7374 8518 8693

12074 10512 8976 9955 10419

14232 13201 10876 11014 11914

16417 16019 13000 11961 13398

18608 19144 15318 12993 14949

21231 22675 18002 14086 16689

24450 27047 21216 15548 19069

29065 33457 26065 17778 22394

44846 53610 43826 24665 34420

 

each row is the mean income after tax for 10-percentile income groupings. as we can see the "prosperous nations" have the lowest 10-percentiles earning the least among the nations compared, which is likely to be worse in reality since cost of living is also in some way related to mean national income. thus it appears that the UN numbers for % of population living below the poverty line are indeed meaningful.

 

note: sweden is a classic welfare state.

[j_b]

more on the disingenuous use of "average income". specifically PP's comment about income in canada versus the US in his first post.

 

from statistics canada:

"Average real incomes are higher and have been growing considerably faster in the United States. At the same time, Canada has not seen the substantial increase in income inequality that has occurred in the United States.

 

Inequality (the gap between rich and poor) and polarization (decline in the middle class) of family disposable incomes in Canada has remained roughly stable since the mid 1970s, while it has increased in the United States, more so since the mid 1980s.

 

The income gap between Canadian and American families has widened at the top of the income spectrum. At the bottom of the income spectrum, Canadian families are better off in terms of purchasing power than are their American counterparts."

 

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/000728/d000728a.htm

 

we could, of course, already see the above from the data in my previous post but i thought it'd be worthwhile to point it out nonetheless.

[Peter_Puget]

I am pressed for time today but I offer the following comments:

 

Jim - To base your conclusions on your data would be a failure of intelligence. I offered several clues you chose to ignore and yet you broadened your net. I wrote that infant mortality rate does not for me at least provide concvincin gevidence of superior care. There are many reasons for this one is just one is that in other countries a larger share of high-risk pregnancies end up as miscarriages. Those countries will have higher fetal death rates, but probably will have lower measured rates of infant mortality. The data you provide is simply does not prove your point.

 

J-B -

 

You are arguing not against my argument but against some silly notion you think you can prove by regurgitating facts from Google. What you are writing (and Jim too for that matter) is completey non repsonsive to what I am asserting. I am making a claim about what will happen in the future given the choices various countires have made in the past and are making now.

 

One cannot siimply repeal the laws of economics by fiat or the ballot box. 35 hour work week is a perfect example of this. Another would be the dramatic immigration of professionals from Canada to the US. I pointed this out about a year ago. MDs inparticular are very likely to move to the US. Wanna get hired by Mercedes? Move to the US. A country that is growing quicker and is more available to change has more options open to it than one growing slowly.

 

In one sense the people in the EU have been selfish and said "we want it now, screw our children." Thank heaven their progeny can take solice in all being equally poor.

 

[j_b]

you are some piece of work. perhaps you ought to reread your first post to remember what your claims are.

 

which "laws" of economics did you actually use in your argument? that creating an underclass is the surest way to create the illusion of "full employment"? that using mean national income as a measure of prosperity is the best way to mask the economic reality of a nation? that using GDP as a measure of prosperity without accounting for indebtment is the surest way to buffalo jump?

[cj001f]

Wanna get hired by Mercedes? Move to the US. A country that is growing quicker and is more available to change has more options open to it than one growing slowly.

 

In one sense the people in the EU have been selfish and said "we want it now, screw our children." Thank heaven their progeny can take solice in all being equally poor.

Hired by Mercedes as what? If you want to be a factory worker, you´ll be an American, definitely. If you want to be an engineer, you´ll be German. At least that was according to the engineering manager I talked to week before last

 

As for your accusing the EU of being selfish, what exactly is running up a massive national debt to pay for abusive social programs, absurd wars, and fantastically wasteful defense spending, all the while balloning the national debt because you´ve massively cut taxes for the absurdly rich but dumping the burden on the next generation?

[Squid]

In PP's defense, we have repealed the estate tax. That means that the next generation will really benefit. If you're rich.

[Peter_Puget]

Says it all!

 

The alternatives offered to the people of France are not between the idealistic European multiculturalism of the 21st century and the xenophobic nationalism of the 19th. Rather they face a choice between two approaches: on one hand the liberal ideology of free markets and small governments that seems to be sweeping the world after its relaunch in Britain and America in the 1980s. The alternative is the 1970s belief that a centralised, protectionist and bureaucratically managed state could gradually be extended to the whole of Europe, preserving and enhancing the traditions of Gaullism in its glory days, when Chirac and Giscard were rising to power.

 

link

 

 

 

Wanna get hired by Mercedes? Move to the US. A country that is growing quicker and is more available to change has more options open to it than one growing slowly.

 

In one sense the people in the EU have been selfish and said "we want it now, screw our children." Thank heaven their progeny can take solice in all being equally poor.

Hired by Mercedes as what? If you want to be a factory worker, you´ll be an American, definitely. If you want to be an engineer, you´ll be German. At least that was according to the engineering manager I talked to week before last

 

As for your accusing the EU of being selfish, what exactly is running up a massive national debt to pay for abusive social programs, absurd wars, and fantastically wasteful defense spending, all the while balloning the national debt because you´ve massively cut taxes for the absurdly rich but dumping the burden on the next generation?

 

Hell ya we don't want any of those manufacturing jobs here in the states! We're to freakin' good that for shit.

 

I would suggest you look at the impending costs of the for example Frances social system and compare and contrast.

 

Gotta run just wanted to post this quote since it was spot on! Don't be conservative join the revolution o f free mind free markets and small government! You have nothing to lose but your (golden?) chains!

[j_b]

PP provides a link to an opinion piece: PP bolsters his argument with "spot on" quotes...

 

j_b provides links to studies substantiated by data and analysis: j_b "regurgitates facts from Google" ...

 

can the rhetoric be any more transparent?

[Jim]

PP-

 

From that last incoherent post I hope you're running out for your doctor's appointment and can ask for a dosage change.

[cj001f]

Hell ya we don't want any of those manufacturing jobs here in the states! We're to freakin' good that for shit.

Doesn´t matter how could we are my friend, the Chinese are as good, and cheaper. Value added is the way of the future, and Joe Blow turning a wrench on the assembly line isn´t the way of the future. Of course, those are the job´s W´s trying to keep by subsidizing the steel industry and all of the other menial crap, while cutting the US professional classes and eviscerating the US middle class.

 

I´m begining to the think you are just a right wing j_b (replying with quotes of France to discussion of germany, slavering over wankfests of your own side).

 

I lose my gold chains, I exchange them for $.99 super low markdown walmart chains. What an improvement Can I get a DVD with that?

[j_b]

replying with quotes of France to discussion of germany, slavering over wankfests of your own side

 

what's your point exactly?

[rbw1966]

"liberal ideology of free markets and small governments. . ."??

[Peter_Puget]

PP provides a link to an opinion piece: PP bolsters his argument with "spot on" quotes...

 

j_b provides links to studies substantiated by data and analysis: j_b "regurgitates facts from Google" ...

 

can the rhetoric be any more transparent?

 

See the problem is..your links do not address my argumetn. Kindy goofy eh?

[olyclimber]

What do you guys think of my new gun?

[j_b]

See the problem is..your links do not address my argumetn. Kindy goofy eh?

 

only in your twisted logic would pointing out the creation of a huge permanent underclass in the countries that have adopted neo-liberalism since the 80's not be relevant to your measure of current and future "prosperity".

 

it has now been quite a while since you have said anything of substance ... but at this point you are just trying to bow out 'gracefully', ain't it?

[Squid]

What do you guys think of my new gun?

 

That's pretty good, but I didn't see a corkscrew and it looks like the rectilinear lens on the x-ray lens needs a color filter.

 

The key chain is cool.

[willstrickland]

In one sense the people in the EU have been selfish and said "we want it now, screw our children." Thank heaven their progeny can take solice in all being equally poor.

 

As opposed to the US running a 6% GDP deficit when we know an age wave is cresting? And cutting taxes while running a war? Attempting to privatize SS at a HUGE transition cost, while ignoring the solvency problem, because...you know, those youngsters already think we're gonna fuck em on SS anyway, might as well just cut their benefits when the time comes. I won't even mention the environmental legacy.

 

The hypocrisy in that statement is absolutely stunning. This administration is THE poster child for screwing the next generation.

[Peter_Puget]

In one sense the people in the EU have been selfish and said "we want it now, screw our children." Thank heaven their progeny can take solice in all being equally poor.

 

As opposed to the US running a 6% GDP deficit when we know an age wave is cresting? And cutting taxes while running a war? Attempting to privatize SS at a HUGE transition cost, while ignoring the solvency problem, because...you know, those youngsters already think we're gonna fuck em on SS anyway, might as well just cut their benefits when the time comes. I won't even mention the environmental legacy.

 

The hypocrisy in that statement is absolutely stunning. This administration is THE poster child for screwing the next generation.

 

It might be hypocrisy if I was saying that the US government was an ideal for living or a perfect system. In the real world what usually matters is not abolute value but comparative advantage. I say we have the advantage compared to the EU. We could loose it if we create more ponzi schemes like social security. I would hasten to add that the dynamic responsive nature of our economy will enable us to repsond better to mistakes in the future. Lets not destroy that advantage. I would note that to date no one has refuted or even attempted to refute the forecast claiming the US wil have a greater growth rate than Europe. Nor have they discussed the potential long term impacts of such a differentail in growth rates.