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Blakej

Hybrid jackets?

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I've been looking for a new shell jacket and came upon some of the hybrid scholer(sp)and gore jackets. The seem pretty good and even cheeper than straight up gore jackets from the same companies but I still have some reservations

like how well they work in the super wet conditions around here. Also do they hold up to washing as well as straight gore. Do they breathe better than other jackets or are they just hype? Anyone have a favorate?

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I saw a Millet one that looked good.

I think it had...... light gore tex top parts. Schoeller Dynamic under the armpits and at other high heat vent zones. It also had the schoeller in lots of other places, intergrated with the gore tex to give you soft shell freedom of movement. I think it was pretty light also. Hardshell element protection with softshell breathability and movement. Nobody here in the states is making anything quite like it?

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I'm very limited for time at the moment, but...

 

I have used about 1/2 dozen variations. You love them or you hate them. If you like softshells and hate wearing or carrying gore, you're of the former group. They tend to handle variable conditions best. If it's pissing NW style, wear gore. Brilliant for ice climbing. Brilliant also for wearing around town (not kidding). They can get very wet in bad conditions. Tend to be heavy so justifying gore just in case gets awkward. Very good in cold conditions. Best suited to those who already own a quiver of jackets. One of my favorites though.

 

Will try to add later.

 

GB

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The hybrid jacket certainly has some advantages over 100% laminate jackets, but it is no holy grail. I have an Arcteryx Alpha Comp Hoody, and I like it, but I haven't used it in a wide range of weather conditions yet. For sustained wet conditions it will not keep you as dry as a full WPB membrane jacket, but does have more versatility.

 

I think the main thing going for the hybrid jacket is that it dries fast/is very breathable. Even with a Gore jacket less than 2 years old, it is going to wet out after a while in the rain, regardless of how much DWR treatment you give it. Then you have a waterproof/breathable jacket that doesn't breathe much because the face fabric is wet. Now your jacket is wet and heavy. The hybrid jacket will also get wet, maybe even let some water through the softshell fabric, but because it is so breathable your body heat can dry it out quickly. Obviously you won't dry your jacket out from body heat while it is still raining, but once you get to your tent/hut/cave/yurt/car or when it stops raining you will dry it out. If it is raining hard enough to soak your softshell then you are probably bailing at that point. Unless you are backpacking, in which case the hybrid might not be your best choice.

 

Contrary to the earlier post, I think the hybrid jacket is ideal for the person who is looking for one jacket to do everything- i.e. it is not a "quiver" piece. Consider this:

 

ultralight G-tex jacket + light softshell = ~15oz + ~20oz = ~35oz

Hybrid = 17oz

 

ultralight (Marmot Precip) hardshell + light softshell (Cloudveil Serendipity) = ~$120 + $220 = $340

or... this could range up to $350 + $285 = $635 at the higher end. Yikes.

Alpha Comp Hoody = $350. Not cheap, but cheaper than most 2-jacket systems.

 

I am giving up entirely on Gore Tex for a while to see if the hybrid jacket will work for me in the mountains. Anyone want a Mountain Hardwear Ethereal Ice Gore XCR jacket in excellent shape? Cheap!

 

bigdrink.gif

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Somewhat off subject, I saw the new Patagonia garments for 2005 during a demo at FF. Finally got the answer to what I've been looking for! Forgot the name of the fabric, but one of the new jackets is called Mixup. Look for it in January. And, it is just $200 - kiss it, Arcteryx!!! (I zeroed in to that thing at the first glance. One touch was enough to see a revolution. Another advancement was glued seams, not sewn. Interestingly, the one demo-ed was Steve House's on his climb of K7.)

 

Another note, I was testing ice-tools today at Big Four, two hours straight under a non-stop heavy rain (what a day, geez). I wore an Arcteryx Anabatic (similar to Paragonia's Essenshell) and a shell out of that Sil-Nilon looking material over the top. The inside of the Anabatic never got wet anywhere. The outside had wet spots on arms and chest. I previously treated the outer shell with that Tectron or smth. So to me all that Gore stuff is history, along with eVent and what not. Oh, here, my Shoeller pants, also treated, were not soaked through at all, with the exception of upper thighs that felt just damp.

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Rafael, that Patagonia jacket's the Ready-Mix. I've had my hands on one and am climbing in it this winter. It's a very nice shell piece, one of the few microfiber jackets that actually has a sensible cut of interest to an alpine climber - the hood actually goes over a helmet - not many microfiber jackets out there than can do that. Nice hem, long arms, room to layer but not too bulky. My size M is 14.4 oz.

 

You aren't going to use this in sustained rain, but for winter climbing, or to buy you some time to get back to the car and bail off a wet route, this could probably do it.

 

The fabric is very similar to Pertex Equilibrium (more info) in both construction and behavior. Dries very fast and makes Schoeller Dynamic look like a sponge. It's a thinner fabric than Dynamic as well. It has advantages over the ultralight wind shirt fabrics like Pertex Microlight (used in the 5 oz Montane Lightspeed) in that it is way more durable (I've chimneyed around in mine on both granite and limestone), doesn't wet out as fast, and breathes a little better. The jacket has a very soft hand - almost like cotton - it's a neat weave that sheds snow really well, is quiet, and very comfortable.

 

Read a Preview of the Ready-Mix Jacket Here From Summer OR.

 

And stay tuned for a review from a winter alpine climbing perspective and context coming in the next few weeks at BackpackingLight.com.

 

RJ

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Ready-Mix, right! Yep, Patagonia did it and will get my money. I am glad I can close this gear chapter for years. I mentioned Steve House for a reason, the jacket looked so unscathed, great shape, and that's after climbing K7. I tried it on, felt great.

Durability, Breathability, Stretchiness and good construction are the distinguishing characteristics of the Ready-Mix.

 

Anabatic does not breathe as well, is not stretchy and scars easier. I just got it for $39 for sport cragging to replace a lost shirt.

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BTW EMS have awesome sale on all their clothing and the clothing construction is far better then REI the Belay jacket is only $80 with Primaloft One insulation

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Quick heads up everyone: Patagonia is now taking orders on the Ready-Mix. They'll have it in stock 1/10 and it'll ship shortly thereafter...

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Just out of curiosity: how many people actually fit into Patagonia jackets? The sleeve length in the medium is too short for my arms... the large has the right arm length but I'm no where close to being fat enough to fill out the body (the medium fits much better). And its not just jackets... anything long sleeved comes up short on me. Anybody else have this problem?

 

And I am a large in any other vendor. Maybe I just have ape arms or something... blush.gifcry.gif

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Just out of curiosity: how many people actually fit into Patagonia jackets? The sleeve length in the medium is too short for my arms... the large has the right arm length but I'm no where close to being fat enough to fill out the body (the medium fits much better). And its not just jackets... anything long sleeved comes up short on me. Anybody else have this problem?

 

And I am a large in any other vendor. Maybe I just have ape arms or something... blush.gifcry.gif

 

I don't have particularly long arms and I've noticed the exact same prob. I bought some of their silkweights a few years back and wanted a tight fit for better wicking so I went for a med. The bod is just about right but the arms and way too short. rolleyes.gif

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the large has the right arm length but I'm no where close to being fat enough to fill out the body (the medium fits much better)

I've got broad shoulders - the patagonia stuff tends to fit me about perfect.

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Patagonia fits my +4 ape index just barely. Better than Marmot, Arc'teryx, or Mountain Hardwear. My shoulders and chest are on the large side of OK for XL.

 

Their silkweight capilene is bizarre, the sleeves of my XL end about halfway up my forearms. Doesn't bother me much.

 

I just buy the largest size made (including boots) and pray that it fits. hahaha.gif So I don't have an opinion if Patagonia XL is really something else.

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Just out of curiosity: how many people actually fit into Patagonia jackets? The sleeve length in the medium is too short for my arms... the large has the right arm length but I'm no where close to being fat enough to fill out the body (the medium fits much better). And its not just jackets... anything long sleeved comes up short on me. Anybody else have this problem?

 

And I am a large in any other vendor. Maybe I just have ape arms or something... blush.gifcry.gif

 

The XL stretch Elements fits just fine. Maybe you need to bulk up a bit, you know, hit the weights?

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yellaf.gif

 

When I graduated HS I could bench press 290 moon.gif, could only climb 5.8 trad blush.gif, and wore a medium in patagonia.

 

A few years later and I can't bench press 290 cry.gif, can climb a little harder than 5.8 trad smile.gif (yoga was the key) and still wear a medium in patagonia.

 

Maybe I should be hitting the doughnuts. cheeburga_ron.gif

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Maybe I should be hitting the doughnuts. cheeburga_ron.gif

North Face seems to have the beergut sizing down.

 

For screwy sizing whats with Cloudveil pants? A large is like a 34*38!

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I agree with NOLSe and Jake Gano about the Patagucci jacket sizing. I generally wear size L for reasons of sleeve length and shoulder width. Most of Pata's shell-type jackets have way too much torso volume relative to sleeve length for those with slim, athletic builds. There are exceptions; I have their Core Skin (soft shell) jacket from two years ago and the large is a great fit on me. I think most of Pata's stuff is great (good design and materials; very high quality) but I think their outerwear fit is generally off. Room for layering is one thing but excess material is another. Who are they designing for? I'd say Arc'teryx has the best overall fit for me.

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