Seattle is not Washington State

[Dru]

...any measurement has a margin of error. in this case the measurement of voter preference (the vote tally) had a difference that was less than the margin of error for the election. therefore, it is not possible to state with certainty which candidate was preferred by voters, and a measurement with greater precision (recount or runoff ballot) is needed to verify the voters' decision.

 

FW: If you are confident your candidate won you should WELCOME a recount. The only reason you have to fear such a procedure is if you feel your candidate won only because of errors in the measurement (vote counting) process.

 

Measure this:

[AlpineK]

Yes Fairweather it's you who lack an understanding of mathematics. We are talking about counting 2.8 million votes; when your canidate wins by 42 out of 2.8 million votes we are talking about an outcome that is well within the possible error.

 

The democrats are willing to foot the bill for the recount, so it doesn't really effect you in any way. I bet if Dino lost by 42 votes the republicans would pay for a recount, and you'd be telling us it was only fair to doublecheck the results.

 

I think you should quit whining like a little crybaby and wait for the final outcome. If you're sure of the results then there will be no problems and Dino will be governer.

 

In the meantime find yourself a book on statistics and try and catch up...that is if you don't need to review some basic algebra first.

[Duchess]

[Fairweather]

 

In the meantime find yourself a book on statistics and try and catch up...that is if you don't need to review some basic algebra first.

 

Statistics?? Algebra??? Hmmmm. sounds like someone needs to learn their mathematic diciplines. Simple addition will do in this case, I believe. Do you really believe that a hand count is more accurate than that which has already taken place? And no, the Dems aren't willing to pay for it.

 

BTW, that Duchess parrot on your shoulder looks kinda skanky.

[Distel32]

 

In the meantime find yourself a book on statistics and try and catch up...that is if you don't need to review some basic algebra first.

 

Statistics?? Algebra??? Hmmmm. sounds like someone needs to learn their mathematic diciplines. Simple addition will do in this case, I believe. skanky.

 

haha, I think you just illustrated the mathematics point brilliantly

 

[JayB]

I am confused as to why anyone believes that a hand-count of correctly marked ballots would be more accurate than optical scanning. Toss a small box full of confetti on the floor, have 20 different people count the pieces, and you are virtually certain to get 20 different results.

 

Amplify the number to 2.8 million, hand the counting over to people with varying degrees of mental acuity and thoroughness and it's hard to believe the results would be more more valid than an automated process.

 

The only argument that can be made for a manual recount is on those ballots where the marking, and hence, the voter intent, is unclear. Haven't they already done this though?

[AlpineK]

Here's an article I found on the subject Jay.

 

Technologies get in the way of accuracy by adding steps. Each additional step means more potential errors, simply because no technology is perfect. Consider an optical-scan voting system. The voter fills in ovals on a piece of paper, which is fed into an optical-scan reader. The reader senses the filled-in ovals and tabulates the votes. This system has several steps: voter to ballot to ovals to optical reader to vote tabulator to centralized total.

 

At each step, errors can occur. If the ballot is confusing, then some voters will fill in the wrong ovals. If a voter doesn’t fill them in properly, or if the reader is malfunctioning, then the sensor won’t sense the ovals properly. Mistakes in tabulation -- either in the machine or when machine totals get aggregated into larger totals -- also cause errors. A manual system -- tallying the ballots by hand, and then doing it again to double-check -- is more accurate simply because there are fewer steps.

 

The error rates in modern systems can be significant. Some voting technologies have a 5% error rate: one in twenty people who vote using the system don’t have their votes counted properly. This system works anyway because most of the time errors don’t matter. If you assume that the errors are uniformly distributed -- in other words, that they affect each candidate with equal probability -- then they won’t affect the final outcome except in very close races. So we’re willing to sacrifice accuracy to get a voting system that will more quickly handle large and complicated elections. In close races, errors can affect the outcome, and that’s the point of a recount. A recount is an alternate system of tabulating votes: one that is slower (because it’s manual), simpler (because it just focuses on one race), and therefore more accurate.

 

 

Source

 

If you look on his home page it apears that The Economist, not a liberal hotbed, seems to think highly of him.

Bruce Schneier is an internationally renowned security technologist and author. Described by The Economist as a "security guru," Schneier is best known as a refreshingly candid and lucid security critic and commentator. When people want to know how security really works, they turn to Schneier.

 

[Fairweather]

Yes Fairweather it's you who lack an understanding of mathematics.

 

 

If you're sure of the results then there will be no problems and Dino will be governer.

 

In the meantime find yourself a book on statistics and try and catch up...that is if you don't need to review some basic algebra first.

 

So a fucking woodcutter is gonna' present a math lecture now?

 

 

BTW, AK; it's spelled governor.

[Dru]

So a fucking woodcutter is gonna' present a math lecture now?

 

is that a little class envy? AlpineK getting too uppity for his station?

 

Jesus was a carpenter.

[Distel32]

it doesn't fucking matter what his job is, he is right, you are, well how do you say....not right?

 

live with it

[snoboy]

OK, I am a little in shock right now that the electronic systems have that high an error, but I am curious, what is the error rate of hand counts? Anybody?

[klenke]

FW: You should shut up before you stick your foot in your mouth. Kurt has a degree in mathematics.

 

Both hand counts and machine counts are inherently inaccurate, albeit for entirely differnt reasons. You could count and recount and recount the ballots for a month of Sundays and get different outputs every time, even if you thought you were recounting the same way each time.

 

To me, neither Dino nor Christine has "won" the election via statistics. However, Dino has "currently" won the election by law. Operative word is "currently." We'll twiddle our thumbs and see.

[Fairweather]

FW: You should shut up before you stick your foot in your mouth. Kurt has a degree in mathematics.

 

 

Not to get too personal, but I've met him, and frankly, I just don't believe it. (Unless we're talking autism?) His processor was long ago dimmed by large quantities of THC resin. He likes to hurl insults, so here's back at him.

 

As for Distel...Democratic activist and party official...well, I would expect nothing less than pure partisanship. No logic/reason expected. No problem there.

[Distel32]

do you see me posting about conspiracy theories about the presidential election??? nope.....

 

plus, if this was the case for Dino I would say the same things. I've taken stats, I know what standard margin of error is, unlike you, so I would still say there is no winner even if it was christine who won the electronic ballot count.

 

but think what you will

[Dru]

Actually manual counts have a very low margin of error. You get a group of people, both Repubs, Democrats and independents, to sit around and together check each ballot and you get multiple redundancy on each count, reducing error by orders of magnitude. Unlike an optical scanner that is guaranteed to have a certain error rate, and no backup verification.

[Fairweather]

While we're at this hand recount business, let's also check voter registration records in King County. Seattle, in particular. I suspect we would find many students who are also registered in their home counties/states and voted twice absentee, non-citizens who registered motor-voter, non-restored felons, indigent who were illegally "helped" by Democratic activists, etc. Of course, this is just pure speculation on my part, but I think it would be even more fun than a hand recount!

 

Remember kids! Knowingly voting twice is a felony!

 

You want to count every vote. Fine. I say, let's count the vote of every person who was legally entitled to do so and convict or deport those who broke the trust.

[Fairweather]

Actually manual counts have a very low margin of error. You get a group of people, both Repubs, Democrats and independents, to sit around and together check each ballot and you get multiple redundancy on each count, reducing error by orders of magnitude. Unlike an optical scanner that is guaranteed to have a certain error rate, and no backup verification.

 

Many predominantly Republican Eastern Washington counties use punch-card ballots which start to deterriorate when handled too many times. Many of these will now be disqualified as "overvotes" as the non-punched chads fall out. Equal protection is a real issue here. Bring on the lawyers!!

[Distel32]

You will only get one absentee ballot, you are either registered in one county or the other

[Fairweather]

This is simply not true. As a party official, you surely must know this. I know of at least two individuals who each received two absentee ballots. If you don't notify your ex-county of residence, you will not be automatically purged from the rolls. Eventually names are supposed to be x-referenced, but Sam Reed has stated that this rarely happens.

[Pencil_Pusher]

 

Remember kids! Knowingly voting twice is a felony!

 

 

How about citing the RCW for this? ...if you even know...

[Skeezix]

FW is getting trounced in this thread.

[AlpineK]

Not to get too personal, but I've met him, and frankly, I just don't believe it. (Unless we're talking autism?) His processor was long ago dimmed by large quantities of THC resin. He likes to hurl insults, so here's back at him.

 

 

So you can't win through logic so you resort to personal attacks.

 

BTW it's well known that Carl Sagan loved to smoke pot, and he had a PhD in Physics.

[tread_tramp]

 

 

...well, I would expect nothing less than pure partisanship. No logic/reason expected. No problem there.

 

Muttering about yourself there Fairweather?

[Fairweather]

Not to get too personal, but I've met him, and frankly, I just don't believe it. (Unless we're talking autism?) His processor was long ago dimmed by large quantities of THC resin. He likes to hurl insults, so here's back at him.

 

 

So you can't win through logic so you resort to personal attacks.

 

BTW it's well known that Carl Sagan loved to smoke pot, and he had a PhD in Physics.

 

AK, you are the master of the personal attack, so don't cry when someone comes back at you in kind.

 

Carl Sagan, while certainly adept at translating astro-physics into laymans terms, wasn't that highly regarded by his peers. (Maybe because they could see the dulling effect of his habit?)

[Fairweather]

 

Remember kids! Knowingly voting twice is a felony!

 

 

How about citing the RCW for this? ...if you even know...

 

Try this: (are you worried now??)

 

http://www.secstate.wa.gov/elections/voterguide/faq2.aspx

 

Frequently asked Questions about Residency and Voting Rights

 

 

 

 

To be eligible to register to vote in Washington, you must be a resident of the state. The term residence is used differently for a variety of legal situations. For example, residency for tuition at a state college is defined by statutes dealing with state institutions of higher learning. Residency for unemployment benefit eligibility or financial assistance is defined by statutes dealing with those topics. Similarly, residency is defined for the purposes of voting in the State Constitution and in the laws and regulations related to voting.

 

The Washington State Constitution states the following qualifications for voters, “All persons of the age of eighteen years or over who are citizens of the United States and who have lived in the state, county and precinct thirty days immediately preceding the election at which they offer to vote…”(Art. VI sec. 1) . RCW 29.01.140 defines residence for the purpose of registering and voting as a person’s address where he physically resides and maintains his abode.

 

What does residence mean for purposes of voter registration and voting?

 

When applied to voter registration, the term residence usually means the place where you physically maintain your home and where you spend the majority of your time. You must have a residence. Once that residence is established, it exists until a new residence is established. You may not have more than one residence.

 

How do I change my residence?

 

You must physically leave the previous residence with the intention of establishing a new residence at another location. You do not lose residence for voting purposes simply because you are no longer residing at the physical location where you are registered.

 

For example, if you leave to begin a job in a new location with the intent of returning you will not lose residency. If, however, you choose to make the new location your residence then the previous residence is lost and you must change your registration. Intention to reside in a particular place - permanently or for an unspecified period of time - is an important factor in determining your residence for voting purposes. Your declarations or testimony, with respect to your intention, must be evidenced by your conduct and the factual circumstances surrounding his or her claim to a particular residence.

 

What if I’m in the military, a student or traveling outside the state or country?

 

These rules also apply to you if you’re in the military, a student or traveling outside the state and country.

 

It is your responsibility to know whether you are eligible to register and vote. In addition to meeting the residency requirements listed above, you must be at least 18 years of age, a citizen of the United States of America, and have your full civil rights to be eligible to participate in elections.

 

Is it legal for people to use my address for their voter registration even though they don’t live here anymore?

 

Yes. In many circumstances, it is the only address they can use for voter registration. For example, a member of the armed services stationed overseas or out of state, or a student attending school abroad whose formerly resided at your address, may use that address for voter registration and voting purposes.

 

What are the penalties for voting or registering to vote if I am ineligible?

 

These crimes are Class C felonies punishable by imprisonment for up to five years and/or a fine up to $10,000.

 

What can I do if I know someone isn’t eligible to vote but is still registered to vote?

 

Suggest the person contact his/her county elections department right away to have the (or his/her) registration canceled. If the person is not willing to accept this responsibility, you may contact the County Auditor yourself. You can also provide proof of his/her ineligibility to the County Prosecuting Attorney.

 

What should I do if I want to file a report about a person who I suspect is not eligible to be a registered voter?