ChrisT Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 Lately I've been daydreaming about living in the Netherlands. They're progressive policies and rampant cycle riding really appeal to me. They've embraced assisted suicide, alternative energy, legalized pot and prostitution, etc etc. But my friend tells me it's very densely populated and the scenery is unexciting - read: FLAT. You'd hate it she says. So *are* there any countries that represent a utopia on earth? Or should I just thank my lucky stars that I live in the beautiful state of Washington and Dino Rossi is only leading by 19 votes... Quote
selkirk Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 It's all about New Zealand baby. Good alpine, good backpacking, good sailing! Anybody now about the Rock Climbing? Of course I guess you could always head to Australia or Asia for that? I've been told I should never go because I wouldn't come back! Quote
Gripped Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 They've embraced assisted suicide, alternative energy, legalized pot and prostitution, etc etc. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 On a day like this, how can you even think of leaving Washington? Quote
foraker Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 New Zealand baby. Fabulous mountaineering but next to zero rock climbing. There is supposedly some down near Queenstown but I hear it too sucks. Quote
Alex Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 Netherlands might be flat, but I hear the Alps arent. Europe is small, yeah you wont be doing "weekends to Leavenworth", but week long trips to Cham make up for it. I've been considering a move to the Czech Republic, France, or Switerland. My own country is too damn expensive compared to Czech, and I think the job prospects in CS are about the same. Quote
cj001f Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 hmm. Since when does Alpine Granite suck? The drawback to NZ is the only place to make a reasonable wage/comparable standard of living is in Auckland, which most Kiwi's will tell you isn't living in NZ. Australia would be a better choice - live by the beach, rock climbing, great weather, and NZ's a couple hour flight away. Quote
JayB Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 Check into the Van Gogh murder and the subsequent response by the state and the citizenry. Any place with a small population, that's essentially homogeneous in racial composition, ancestry, and language can boast some pretty impressive stats. I think that Minnesota, if it were a country, would rank right up there with Scandanavia in all of the relevant stats. Once they have to contend with the problems that they have been insulated from for most of their recent history, things change in a hurry. Again - check the Van Gogh situation for portents of things to come. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 Check into the Van Gogh murder and the subsequent response by the state and the citizenry. Any place with a small population, that's essentially homogeneous in racial composition, ancestry, and language can boast some pretty impressive stats. I think that Minnesota, if it were a country, would rank right up there with Scandanavia in all of the relevant stats. Once they have to contend with the problems that they have been insulated from for most of their recent history, things change in a hurry. Again - check the Van Gogh situation for portents of things to come. I've heard that Germany is a great place to live.... for Germans. Quote
JayB Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 But back to the subject at hand - I would probably opt for Australia, New Zealand, and Canada in that order. I suppose England would rank a distant fourth. Quote
ChrisT Posted November 17, 2004 Author Posted November 17, 2004 In their defense, Holland *does* have a history of harboring dissidents such as the Franks during WWII. I've been to Australia and while the people are super, it's not much of a landscape. New Zealand is looking better and better all the time... Quote
Camilo Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 Chile! Andes, surfing, desert, Patagonia. I love Oregon and the US, but if I want a change of scenery at some point in my life, I could easily spend a few years living there. Not to mention instantaneous citizenship from being born there Quote
JayB Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 Chile would definitely be tops in SA. They seem to have gotten away from the "Let's have a revolution and impoverish ourselves to spite the gringo." ethos that has permeated the rest of the continent for the last 90 years or so. Carlo's Rangel's "The Latin Americans" is a great primer on the above topic. Quote
Dru Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 Kiwistan (NZ) is great if you like sheep. The rock climbing is good, alpine is great, bouldering is world class but - face facts - the population of both islands is only 3 million (and 30 million sheep), less than a good sized city. It's a cultural BACKWATER. Netherlands - never live in a country below sea level when the climate is warming! The best country in the world is CANADA. It will only stay that way if the Americans stay in America. You know how Washingtonians feel when Californians move to Washington and then whine about how it isn't Cali. Well triple that. Stay home. Quote
selkirk Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 Kiwistan (NZ) is great if you like sheep. The rock climbing is good, alpine is great, bouldering is world class but - face facts - the population of both islands is only 3 million (and 30 million sheep), less than a good sized city. It's a cultural BACKWATER. Says the man from the wilds of British Columbia where the population density is lower the NZ by a factor of 3 Quote
cj001f Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 Says the man from the wilds of British Columbia where the population density is lower the NZ by a factor of 3 Yeah, that Vancouver, real cultural backwater There's a reason every Kiwi has an OE - they spend lots of their life hearing about everywhere else, and both NZ and Australia are a long ways from anywhere. Get used to 744's! Europe would be nice - Switzerland, Nordic Countries, bits of E Europe - high standards of living, excellent recreation. Quote
foraker Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 If you were going for Australia, another fine choice, you should seriously look at Melbourne. Yah got yer rainy weather, just like the PNW, and yer Grampians and yer Arapiles. Granted, the skiing sucks ass and the mountaineering is non-existent... Still, Melbourne is probably the most European of cities you'll find down that way. Quote
Dru Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 And beer costs $10 a glass in Norway. no thanks. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 Europe would be nice - Switzerland, Nordic Countries, bits of E Europe - high standards of living, excellent recreation. Astronomical taxes. Quote
Dru Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 Australia - great rock climbing, no mtns worth the name, no snow, severely impacted environment. Or are rabbit plagues, cane toad plagues, extinction of many native species, continent-spanning fences, severe drought, overgrazing and pesticide-laden sediment plumes stretching 400km out to sea every time it rains considered acceptable? Quote
iain Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 and if an animal is poisonous it is almost guaranteed to be in australia Quote
iain Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 What to do if you are Attacked by a Sea Creature Quote
cj001f Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 Astronomical taxes. Yawn. Highest standard of living in the world. Those taxes end up paying for things that I pay up the yingyang here for - like college, student loans, etc. The Norwegians I've met have reasonable equivalent salaries, and equivalent disposable income - which in the end is all that matters to me. Seperate argument entirely Melbourne's supposed to very nice - decent MTB'ing as well. Most Aussie's head to NZ for skiing (or the states) Quote
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