jon Posted September 24, 2002 Posted September 24, 2002 I was actually talking about the disclaimer issue with someone the other night. Honestly I don't know much about what our risks are. If there are any lawyer types that would be willing to help us put together a statement that would be neat. Last time I read legalese when I was trying to patent something my brain just about melted. I think there is a recognizable difference between posting an opinion and purposefully posting bad advice. In the latter case either they should be called out or it should be brought to the moderators attention. Things like giving a route condition is really very subjective, versus telling some poor newbie all they should take to go do DA TOOF is a set of quickdraws and a gri gri which is just plain fucked up. What may obviously seem like a joke to you or others may not be interpreted that way by someone who doesn't know any better. So you are putting someone at risk so you can get a laugh? Should that tolerated by us but more importantly the sites core users? I would hope not. [ 09-24-2002, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: jon ] Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted September 24, 2002 Posted September 24, 2002 are you calling water bong usage "bad advice"? bad form....bad form indeed Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted September 24, 2002 Posted September 24, 2002 "are you calling water bong usage 'bad advice'? bad form....bad form indeed " Die, pot-smoking hippie freak! [ 09-24-2002, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ] Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted September 24, 2002 Posted September 24, 2002 you are one to talk about being a hippie you left wing fuck! Quote
allison Posted September 24, 2002 Posted September 24, 2002 No, actually a lot of us 'left wing f#cks' are not hippies at all. Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted September 24, 2002 Posted September 24, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Fence Sitter: you are one to talk about being a hippie you left wing fuck! You're the one talking about smoking pot, which is the cornerstone of hippie existence, pal. DFA simply holds beliefs such as war is crap and the government is often full of crap. Sure, hippies might share those views, too, but they're usually too high to say much besides "duuuude. The government's, like, harshing my vibe, dude. Hey, gimme those chips, brah." So, you're more of a hippie than DFA. Go groom your dreads so you can head out and bum change with your dog, you stinky loser. Quote
allthumbs Posted September 24, 2002 Posted September 24, 2002 Bwahaha! Now that's some funny shit Flash. You a poet and didn't know it. Quote
klar404 Posted September 25, 2002 Posted September 25, 2002 Cartman(from Southpark)said it the best " It's all a bunch of tree hugging hippie crap!" Quote
Off_White Posted September 25, 2002 Posted September 25, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dru: If you are soloing, the last thing you should think about is if there are other people nearby watching you or not*. In your landing zone is another matter, even then, you could ask them to move, or whatever. I have passed roped parties while soloing on the Apron. What would you have me do, turn around and downclimb? * Although it would be worse to only solo with others watching than the other way around. HEY LOOK AT ME IM A HARDMAN AND I SOLO THIS!!! . I haven't finished reading the thread, and I'm not sure where its going, but I had to chime in on this one. Back in the early 80's there was a real soloing fetish going on in Joshua Tree, and folks would actually wait for a party to start a route to solo it. For those of you unfamiliar, these are mostly one pitch climbs. Taking someone up The Flake (5.8) on the westside of Intersection Rock (a ten minute lead) I had some twit solo through. I swear its the closest I've ever come to kicking some shithead off the rock: between his preening attitude (whoohoo, I solo 5.8) and the fact that no one was watching, a quick trip to the ground from 100' would have solved all his problems for good. I've also had to avert my eyes as Yabo shuddered his way solo up routes at Josh. There's something about intentional public soloing for spectacle's sake that really gets my goat, and I wouldn't even kick dirt over your bleeding body. Dru, that's not to say that I think that is what you are up to with soloing routes on the apron (squamish, I assume), and multipitch has a different set of criteria, but I do think that soloing something like Diedre when it has 5 parties on it is just begging to be spit upon. Quote
Off_White Posted September 25, 2002 Posted September 25, 2002 quote: Originally posted by sk:The free solo guy will probably only kill himself... that is his choice... and his to make.[/QB]You know I like you Shelly, but you've never had to clean up a body. Me, I'm a tender sort, I cringe when I drive by smooshed kittens on the road. I've had a friend who never did anything more than boulder after a trio splooshed into the talus on the El Cap Nose rap route after breaking the anchor by dropping their haulbag. I've had another friend have a base jumper smack the wall and arrive on their bivy ledge on Half Dome shattered but alive, aborting their attempt. I've left another friend zipped cold, blue, and stiff into her sleeping bag and left her for the avalanches. If I never see another dead body, even if they thought soloing was a rad expression of their confidence in themselves, it'll never be too soon. [ 09-24-2002, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: Off White ] Quote
Alex Posted September 25, 2002 Posted September 25, 2002 amen [ 09-24-2002, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: Alex ] Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 25, 2002 Posted September 25, 2002 I dont do it much but free soloing is pretty gratifying. I dont like to do it in popular areas as much but have done more so this year. I wonder what could have happened if I fell on Charlie this spring Quote
Off_White Posted September 25, 2002 Posted September 25, 2002 Yah, I don't mean to come off as anti-soloing, it is just one of those things that should be between you and you, and its when someone feels compelled to engage an audience that my buttons get pushed. I think I have too active an imagination to enjoy soloing: what if my shoelaces come untied, what if I get stung by a bee, what if bigfoot shows up and trundles rocks on me... The fact that I have not fallen on anything 5.9 or under for untold years would suggest that I could solo up to that grade with impunity, but my head won't let me. And you know, I'm okay with that. More power too those of you wired differently, I just do not want to have to deal with any flesh that might be left behind. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 25, 2002 Posted September 25, 2002 I only solo if I think I can handle it. Never on 5.9. I think my max is about 5.6 or something. Although I have been scared to hell roped up on some 5.6 climbs If there are too many people I leave or try to climb with them sometimes. Learning how to downclimb well is a good skill for soloists Quote
Off_White Posted September 25, 2002 Posted September 25, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: Learning how to downclimb well is a good skill for soloists Wise words. Like in carpentry, there are some days you can walk the plates, and some days you can't. Quote
Winter Posted September 25, 2002 Posted September 25, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Terminal Gravity: quote:Originally posted by Peter Puget: But I am afraid we have moved far afield from TG's initial post on this thread. PP There are some great posts on this thread. The subject of soloing is an interesting one to me. But, the subject of the responsibility to others when posting advice I think is an important issue on this board. I have often stated on this board that I think that glacier travel without a rope can have an acceptable level of risk for a very experienced climber under certain conditions. I doubt very many would un-equivicably disagree. I would hate to think that a newbie would prance off across a glacier saying " I want to be like TG...If that fat old fuck can do it; so can I!" I think that it should be stated that nothing on this board should be taken as gospel. Every climber is ultimately responsible for their own actions. I also think that within reason, every poster should feel free to post any opinion they have. Here's the thing, climbers have this weird dynamic between often needing and appreciating a good mentor while also preaching self-reliance, creativity and independence. Either way, you end up with a lot of arrogant strong-men talking back and forth to each other about esoteric climbing jargon. I love that shit, and its great to read, but if someone is going to seek wisdom on free solonig from the words of some anonymous web personas, then best of luck to them. TG, I would never feel bad about the type of advice you gave. Keep it up. Quote
allison Posted September 25, 2002 Posted September 25, 2002 Petey is making perfectly good sense. I get his drift. My $.02 on soloing: If someone is doing it, whether I know them or not, I have to leave the scene. It absotively gives me the hibbie-jibbies once they get above, say 20 feet. Quote
sk Posted September 25, 2002 Posted September 25, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Ropegun2002: quote:Originally posted by sk: quote:Originally posted by Ropegun2002: We all wish sk would get our "point" HOW RUDE Thanks! (She wants me)DREAMER! I might let you be my ropegun though Quote
sk Posted September 25, 2002 Posted September 25, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: Petey is making perfectly good sense. I get his drift. My $.02 on soloing: If someone is doing it, whether I know them or not, I have to leave the scene. It absotively gives me the hibbie-jibbies once they get above, say 20 feet. thank you allison. Although I don't have to leave an area when some one is free soloing, I do believe that you made my point for me... If someone is making YOU uncomforatble... you should leave, because you are the one with the problem... however, if jk took up free soloing I would NEVER be arround to watch, EVER!!!! Quote
Bob_Clarke Posted September 25, 2002 Posted September 25, 2002 quote: Originally posted by sk: [/qb] DREAMER! I might let you be my ropegun though [/QB] Anytime - any route (she totally wants me) Quote
carolyn Posted September 25, 2002 Posted September 25, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Terminal Gravity: Any newbies have a comment on this subject Well, I would consider myself a newbie (I wonder how much longer I can get away with that excuse! ), who uses this site for information, advice...and yes, often entertainment. What I get from this site when I ask questions are usually a lot of answers that either confirm something I already know, or offer me a springboard. I typically follow up thru reading and talking with other experienced climbers in my area. I never base my actions off of one opinion or post. This is my life we are talking about. I couldnt imagine taking someone's word as the gospel without reviewing and accepting the various consequences involved. I see others' advice on this site (or elsewhere) as an option to explore, but not mandatory to reach whatever goals I may have. Quote
carolyn Posted September 25, 2002 Posted September 25, 2002 Now I must participate in somewhat of the thread drift... This soloing has weighed heavy on my mind since last ice season. Please keep in mind Im still in the midst of forming my opinion on the subject. I started dinking around on my own, bouldering and such on ice, last winter. I always chose to do this on my own, when no one was around. My reasoning...I am completely responsible for myself. I accepted the risks and understood I would be responsible for getting myself out of a bad situation. Soloing around others would then put the responsibility onto them if I were injured. I dont find that to be fair. When I would see other people soloing, I was okay with it for the most part. I trusted the fact that they new their limits and wouldnt put ME in a traumatic situation. What I have a hard time with is watching my partner, who started soloing on ice toward the end of last season. I know he would not want to put me in a traumatic situation. Yet, the thought of having to deal with an "unneccesary" accident when someone you care about is involved is not a risk Im willing to accept. I know that doesnt make sense due to the fact that climbing in general is inherently risky...or driving...or.... For now, the people I climb with, on whatever medium, usually come to the agreement that we will ask each other BEFORE we start soloing if everyone is kosher with it. If one person is not, then its saved for another time. This has been an interesting thread to read. Thanks! Quote
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