scott_harpell Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 exception..... rule.... most 5.12's at si feel like the mid tens at index sporto wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 ahh not quite sure if its overrated that bad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Â Â Â just stirrin the pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Well, when you've got those 5.13 and 5.14 climbers at places like Little Si that also go places like Smith and Chek, those grades tend to be consistent and therefore lower grades SHOULD be consistent as well. People ticking the big numbers are intensely interested and aware of the ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonah Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I don't think the ratings out here are all that out of whack, for the most part, if you are considering onsight ratings. I've only been to nevermind once, but found the 10s and 11s pretty tricky on the first go. You really have to search around for awhile and end up using a worse hold than you have to. Yes, the second time is a walk, but is that what the grade is really based on? Is an 11a there actually only 5.9 after you have climbed it 10 times? I dunno. And I thought Little Si feels pretty solid, too. I hear people talking smack about ratings that have only dogged the moves. Well, yes, most people CAN do all the moves on chronic their first go. But the individual moves don't make that thing hard. Saying an enduro crag is soft because the individual moves are not bad is like saying marathons are easy because you can run a 5k. And that holy grail of hard ratings, Index, has its share of pitches that seem a little light in the shorts on the onsight, so it seems a bit skewed to hold it up as a paragon of solid ratings. I haven't climbed enough at Index to have much perspective, but my impression so far is that it's not out of line with the valley or eldo, neither of which are all that out of line with little si. My 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 nobody is saying what you are saying...  i'm saying that 5.10 at si and 38 is SOFT compared to just about everywhere else  Take your philosophy of "enduro" climbing down to say sumpin' like Reed's Direct and then tell me about how si or 38 feels on in the lower grades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonah Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Saying Reed's is hard (it is) is different than saying everything else is easy. I am talking about the general scheme of ratings nationwide. In that context, the PNW doesn't seem soft compared to the rest of the country. It seems mostly about right. And comparing a classic trad climb to a 50' bolted climb of the same grade is apples to oranges. I figure 11+/12- sport equates to about 5.10 trad, as far as overall difficulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 still disagree...i think compared to smith or rifle or nrg si is grossly overated in general in the lower ratings... Â an example...I can take a completely novice climber (as in never climbed before) to si and have them go up mid 10's there...you then take a completely novice climber to smith and put them on something mid range like bbq or wedding day or gumby etc. and they will have a much tougher time... Â the ratings start converging as you hit upper 11's and seem to be on by the 12+ mark.... Â i threw reed's into the discussion because of your description of enduro climbing...that is the philosopy of rating in the valley...it does not matter if you have one 5.10 move or all 5.10 moves, its only 5.10... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonah Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 OK. I agree with that. But that's not how things are graded these days, thankfully. Churning, for instance, would be about an 11+, if that were the case. Shit, Wedding Day is harder than Heinous, for instance - I'm not surprised a novice has trouble with that beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonah Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Also, as long as I'm on a soapbox, I think that people tend to downgrade climbs on the lower end, which causes a lot of ill will and angst amongst gumbies because they figure "if the 10s I thought I had done are really just 8s or 9s, I'll never improve." When in fact climbing 12 isn't some ridiculously huge athletic achievement - if you can climb 10 sport, you can do 12, too. I think it's just hard to tell the difference between a sport 8,9 or low 10 if you've been climbing awhile, so we all tend to downgrade without really knowing it. OK. Done ranting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I'm only basing it on my observations of how well completely rank beginners do in the gym and at si/38 then watching how people with the same lack of ability fare at other areas...i think that is the closest you can get to being objective, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I think the reason beginners do well at Exit 38 has a lot to do with the low angle of the rock, at least at the popular newbie areas like Deception and Wright Off Wall. They can use their legs more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat_Roslyn Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Also, as long as I'm on a soapbox, I think that people tend to downgrade climbs on the lower end, which causes a lot of ill will and angst amongst gumbies because they figure "if the 10s I thought I had done are really just 8s or 9s, I'll never improve." When in fact climbing 12 isn't some ridiculously huge athletic achievement - if you can climb 10 sport, you can do 12, too. I think it's just hard to tell the difference between a sport 8,9 or low 10 if you've been climbing awhile, so we all tend to downgrade without really knowing it. OK. Done ranting. who cares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drater Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Obviously you do, reaching back almost two years to resurrect this pile of spew. Â Swear to god man, it's almost time for a PBR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibby Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 The ratings on most of the popular routes seem to be over-rated, especially the 12's at WWWI,but then some of the mid 11's seem harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 I figure 11+/12- sport equates to about 5.10 trad, as far as overall difficulty. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Supposedly, I onsighted .10c trad but couldn't toprope .10c sport last weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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