layton Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 how i wish I wasn't the original topic starter on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 It can go down in infamy along with all those posts about your g/fs of the time dumping you from 2002 and 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I went in last night and they now at least have a couple of juggy routes up the big overhang so at least that's some progress on my main complaint. I wouldn't bemoan starting the thread, you probably woke them up a bit. We'll just have to see how much over time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted November 3, 2004 Author Share Posted November 3, 2004 I was in there last night too...things have gotten better. Here is a suggestion: Suggestion #1: Be able to suspend a year membership. I will not buy a year membership b/c I always take a month off in the winter and 3 in the summer. If I could suspend my membership during that time, I'd probably renew. The 10 pass card also should have more of an expiration date. I understand that the gym costs money to operate, but these complaints I have seem really like nickel and diming the customer. Suggestion #2: The PRG should supply the lead ropes. Most other gyms do. Also, I would imagine that if the PRG supplied the ropes, they would have greater controll on the safety of the climbers b/c they would know what we are climbing with. I was VERY surprised at this. Also (too late for me) a fee for lead cert is pretty nickle and dime also. This makes me feel like I am paying to use a gym, I should be able to USE THE GYM. Suggestion #3: The PRG is too small and too busy I think to have cardio, weights, all the things a non-climbing gym would have. It would be really nice if the PRG would hook up with another gym like 24hr fittness to offer a dual membership discount. Suggestion #4: More mats in the bouldering area. Another safety issue. Also, people that suck like me are sometimes timid to ask the Bro-Bra Gnar Gnar dudes to take a mat they are hoarding for their super sick shirtless proj'. There should be at least 2 more mid sized mats. Suggestion #5: More systems training like the HIT system so climbers can cause more chronic serious injury. Suggestion #6: Group pilates and yoga classes at regular times. I don't know if the studio is actauly PRG controlled or just rented space. But if, for instance, you have classes like "8pm pilates on tues", I would be more apt to go. You may already have this, I've just never seen more than one or two people in that room at once, and I wouldn't feel comfortable having it just be me in there. So, I like the PRG and the folks that work there. I hope they realize that this tread (I hope) is meant to encourage their business by improving. Everything everywhere could use improvements, but with a message board like this, it is easy to be extra accusatory and inflammatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ireneo_Funes Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I totally agree with your first 4 suggestions. Especially #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrill Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 dudes we have been trying to get Gary to suspend annual memberships since the beginning of time. he wouldn’t even suspend my friend's when he had to go away to war. how lame is that? nickel and dime the customers I think is the biggest thing that pisses people off. I doubt we'll get anywhere with the annual membership suspension option, but making the annual membership more enticing would be a GREAT start. For example.. if I’m an annual member why do I have to pay extra for a lead card? ( too late for me too but oh well) If I’m an annual member why do I have to give up an entire wall for some “reserved class”? Why not offer two free day passes to annual members to bring in their spouses or friends (even if they have been before)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrill Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I don’t agree with supplying lead ropes only because the ropes he supplies for TR is so bad that it’s scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I dont agree with supplying lead ropes either as that pushes more liability back on Gary AND means people using the ropes aren't motivated to take care of them. You don't get two free day passes with an annual membership anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin_Matlock Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 This thread has been an interesting read. I'll just say up front that I've never set foot in prg, but just for comparison sake I just had some thoughts comparing prg with stoneworks (the gym I DO set foot in): Suggestion #1: Be able to suspend a year I don't know if SW does this or not, but I would be surprised if ANY business were to do this. I mean, the whole point of the annual "commitment" on the part of a customer is the reason why many businesses will cut you a break on the per-month rate. It's similar to a lease... you wouldn't expect an car dealer to break a lease without a penalty. But, I DO have to say that in certain cases (like going off to war) a decent business should be flexible and "do the right thing". Suggestion #2: The PRG should supply the lead ropes. SW supplies TRs. Not sure about lead (loose) ropes. I would suspect they do though. Suggestion #3: The PRG is too small and too busy I think to have cardio, weights, ... What's all this talk about cardio, pilates, yoga, blah blah blah. SW doesn't have shit in this regards. I think they have a single stationary bike upstairs, but that's it. They DO have awesome push-up and sit-up stations; some of you may also refer to this as THE FLOOR!!! Honestly, if I wanted these other things I'd just go pay for the 24hr fitness membership. However, SW is quite a bit cheaper than PRG (from what I've read), so I could probably pay for both and it would come out costing about what the single PRG membership is. Suggestion #4: More mats in the bouldering area. No problems here... SW has plenty of mats by my estimation. But I bet it's a smaller place. Suggestion #5: More systems training like the HIT system so climbers can cause more chronic serious injury. Sounds interesting... what the hell is an "HIT system"? I have chronic aches and pains so maybe SW should get 'em! Suggestion #6: Group pilates and yoga classes at regular times. SW's group classes are ALWAYS at a regular time: NEVER! I consider you PRG-ers lucky to have such a thing as part of your membership. Again, just one guy's (very limited) comparision/opinion. Not affiliated with either, just a reasonably happy gym member! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Matlock, you are a gumbie delux! Hit system either makes you sick strong or you get injured We get classes and yoga and shit but pay at ton more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryland_moore Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Kevin, you must not climb at SW very much otherwise you'd know that 1) they do not provide lead ropes either, you must bring your own. This is new for me as every gym I've climbed in both east and west coast provides them. 2)If you have been in SW anytime within the last two months, you would see the new equipment upstairs with more weights and cardio equipment on the way as they continue to refinish the "upstairs." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin_Matlock Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 tex- Gumbie? Well, DUH, Captain Obvious. ryland- I climb there 3 or 4 times a week... don't know if that's considered "not very much", but it's plenty for me. I said that "I wasn't sure" about the lead ropes... it was just a guess. Have not seen anyone bring in their own shit so I just assumed this was the case (yeah, I know what happens when you AssUMe ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Stone Gardens in Seattle supplies lead ropes, and lets you suspend your monthly payments for 3 months out of the year. I suspended for June-August. Worked great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 I spoke with Michael today and he said he'd check in for the latest posts. And, hey, these are all great posts. Again, on the financial front I'm sure their options are somewhat limited given the debt burden. That would mean that free auxillary classes, three month on-a-whim suspensions, and large purchases of non-climbing exercise equipment would be pretty tough right now. That said, Gary has always suspended the clock for injuries and if someone was deployed with the guard or reserve it's hard for me to believe Gary wouldn't allow that as well though I don't know about the specific instance mentioned above where he apparently didn't - if that's really the case he should reconsider that decision in my eyes. Again, though, I suspect the "I want a year, but want to suspend over the summer" is unlikely and I wouldn't do it in his position either. I also notice the IWindSurf.com doesn't let you suspend annual weather access during the winter months... The punch card expiration is another matter - that should definitely be good for 4/6/9 months as far as I'm concerned; 3 months is way to tight for folks that travel for work. In general right now I think Gary is still trying to understand how to operate this new gym from a cash flow/financing perspective. The big problem versus a 24-hour fitness is there are just no economies of scale for a single location business like this, it's a expensive endeavor plain and simple and a bunch of it gets passed on to us. But trust me - he isn't getting rich on the gym and he isn't some big corporation or partnership syndicate - he's just a guy that's been grinding it out for years, stashing what he can, and finally built up enough cash and cred to roll it over into the new place. I also had some pretty long talks with him during construction about the HVAC/energy setup in the building and that was another total guess as far as heating/cooling cycles and costs that would take a year or two to figure out. Lead ropes at Stone Gardens - that's new since the 6 months I was up there last year; also highly unlikely and I haven't seen this in a gym but I don't exactly make the plastic rounds all that much. Lead certs definitely shouldn't be charged for, period - that is nickel and dime stuff. The yoga and pilates classes are probably somewhat hard to schedule unless you really get in a groove with an instructor or two that are reliable. I do recall Gary saying he wasn't making anything on these classes and in fact on a square foot basis was losing money. I also believe that it would be a great idea for annual members to guest someone in once a quarter or so and do it as part of a referral incentive program - like 2 or 3 extra months on your ticket if you bring in someone that joins with an annual. Keep'em coming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrill Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Joseph. I was the one with the friend in the Marines that Gary personally denied a membership suspension to. So it did happen. Also stop with the “Gary isn’t getting rich.” Excuses. Most of us don’t expect the world to be handed to us just because we belong to PRG.. but as you can see he charges twice as much as any other gym in the freaking country. So if he’s not doing well then he’s a financial idiot. A few things that I want to report though on a positive note.. this thread IS working. I’m in total shock myself.. but it is. So far there have been NEW ropes put up in place of the really freaking scary ones he had. Also some of the routes have changed per some of the members recommendations.. so that’s another plus. So I say good job for all that bitched and moaned and good job to Gary and PRG for actually listening. Now, financially the gym is still ridiculously high on membership costs.. since people are paying it I doubt it will change. Lead ropes and suspending memberships I really doubt are going to fly. But lead certificates should NOT be charged for. (even though that does nothing for me now) Longer expiration on a punch card would be really nice. And cheaper too. $12 a day is still a lot. As an annual member you CAN bring in someone who has NEVER been before.. but I would like to see if each year an annual member can have just two free “appreciation” passes so they can bring in anyone they want say their wife who has been before or a friend who refuses to join but you like to climb with.. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Kudos to JosephH for turning this into a constructive thread rather than the usual PRG bitch session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Yes, Joseph deserves kudos for keeping this constructive. I do however wish he would stop being an apologist for the PRG (if I hear him saying "Gary's not getting rich" one more time I'm gonna hurl). Let them do their own talking Joseph. Kudos also to the PRG for taking some steps to make the annual members happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 "Lead ropes at Stone Gardens - that's new since the 6 months I was up there last year; also highly unlikely and I haven't seen this in a gym but I don't exactly make the plastic rounds all that much." I was - pleasantly - surprised to see them there, but they do exist. I use them every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 If Gary didn't suspend someone being deployed then I'd say that's pretty damn unfair (speaking as a Vietnam Vet). As to attempting to convey how the commercial financing works I'll back off that but again, the costing is unlikely to change so there's not a lot of point in belaboring either side of that one. Anyway, I'm getting happier with things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellsbells Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Hey guys, don't you know about first Friday? All girls night....and from what I saw the other night, there will definitely be tight yoga pants and very short tank Prana tops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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