Impact of Primal Quest on X-Dome

[cstemley]

Yea, it works, well at least those guys won't be back, no race,no prize whats the point, Gumbys bad bolted pooped 3rd class, geeze they look like they liked the side walk,

[chelle]

In my view the climbing community should do the following:

1) assess the impact/damage first

2) then take the evidence to the race organizer and sponsors (including the tv network) to file a complaint about thier impact/lack of leave no trace ethic

3) open a discussion with the forest service to let them know of the impact/damage (with primary focus on the points ScottP and MattP make above). For all we know the FS may not even know about it at this point. Some good goals for this discussion might be: If the organizer is in violation of the permit what financial penalties can be imposed to a: help with clean-up and b: help provide maintenance funds for the area (could be used on roads, etc.) Another goal might be to request that they let other jurisdictions know how the organizer behaved, to encourage refusal of future permits.

4) To have someone write up some kind of article/editorial that can be sent to publications like Seattle Times/PI/Weekly, Climbing, Rock & Ice, Nat'l Geographic Adventure, etc. to raise awareness of the impact of these types of events. This would presumably exert external pressure from the climbing community and potential racers in their events.

[cstemley]

With out bringing to much attention to our area it would be good to notify other areas before the races come to their town, but their money is as good as any, and I'm sure it buys secrecy, from the people it employs

[willstrickland]

I would suggest that you start at the top of Chelle's list above, and hopefully after #2, we can reach some mutual agreement on a remedy. I would not advocate elevating the issue to the land managers (i.e. USFS) for the reasons ScottP raises.

 

Try to work it out to our own satisfaction with the race organizers first. If they are uncooperative, and ONLY if they are uncooperative, elevate the issue. That is my take.

[ScottP]

ScottP touches on a significant point: the impacts they've had are not unlike those of climbers. However, there is a fundamental difference in my view: they've probably had as much impact in two weeks as we might be able to create in several years, and theirs was a hit and run sh*^storm that persumably generated a huge profit for them, but was left for us to clean up.

Fundamental difference perhaps, but my point was those who will be on the receiving end of any protests only need to get a close view of the expanse on either side of the West Buttress (an opportunity I assume they had) to rationalize the bolting they did. By my count, there are about 130 new bolts in place on the routes between (and including) Rainman and Westward Ho since I first went up there in the mid 80's. To somebody who doesn't have the intimate relationship with the Dome that many of us do, that is a substantial impact that might seem to eclipse the few dozen (?) that were placed for the ropes stage of the race.

As I said earlier, any protest should not focus on the bolts.

[slothrop]

We could propose to the FS that they ask for compensation from the race organizers for cleanup costs, including proper bolt removal and waste disposal. Then we volunteer our services for bolt removal, so competent guys like mattp can do the job right, and suggest that we be compensated in a small way, perhaps just for materials (epoxy). Formally offering to help clean things up could only improve our relations with the land managers.

 

I like the idea of contacting climbers in the areas where the next event is to be held. It would be great if SPQ got some input from local climbers about how a race might impact climbing areas.

[Dave_Schuldt]

With the number of people involved in the race this can't be the only area impacted. Maybe we should check other areas as well. Then it may not be just a climbers issue. This may help bring other groups into the debate.

[dberdinka]

With the number of people involved in the race this can't be the only area impacted.

 

Good point. As I was told by a friend who was given work on the X-Dome part of the leg, the coure designer went out of his way to choose trailess areas for the race so that participants would have to do more orienteering. He theorized that many areas had been stomped into oblivion. Would be interesting to see the impact to other legs of the race as well. Should be of particular interest to enviromental groups including the guys (the other non-climber guys) who are unhappy with IB!

[ketch]

I don't want to throw too much of a monkey wrench into this discussion, but. SPQ has been working with local business and land managers for 7 -8 months that I have been part of. I was not involved in any way with the climbing as I was in a business relationship for technical work. What local wildland stuff was impacted they were very good at contacting managers and discussing what was acceptable and unacceptable pre and post race conditions.

 

I am all for having them set right, or pay for doing so, with regards to any wrongs done. It is a great oppurtunity to build on some relationships and show that we as climbers are concerned reasonable people. Let's be decent in our approach. The state parks people up here were firm and reasonable and in the end the only impact was that the driftwood on the beach was rearranged so that it looked better. Our first winter storm will "adjust" that.

 

I have to note that I was not in any of the back country areas. I did make a trip into the Baker area that was dropped and was at most of the transition points but not the intermediate checkpoints. In the areas that I was at they were pretty good at being low impact. These areas were already "developed" and so it was easy for them to be "low impact". Getting a good view of what they actually left behind is a perfect start.

Edited September 30, 2004 by ketch

[Recycled]

We had a family outing in Larrabee State Park two or three weekends ago. There were Subaru and "Event in Progress" signs all over the place that gave the impression that the State Park was closed or at least restricted access. There was also a helicopter buzzing around incessantly right over the water off the beach. We headed off in the other direction to the Fragrance Lake Trail, but it took a while to get out of earshot of the helicopter. My wife and I spent a while quite irritated, trying to figure out how Subaru could essentially shut down a major State park on a sunny September weekend and have such a high impact (i.e. helicopter) on other users. Perhaps this was the same event? I don't get why the State Parks can charge their access fees, yet allow this level of intrusion. It really sucked. Whine, whine, whine....

[knelson]

Having seen some corporations' public "statement of ethics" called to the mat in the past, their response is always the same. Here's my predicition...

 

********************************

 

"As partners with you in preserving the wilderness for future generations, it pains us to hear that a small part of our Subaru Primal Quest family did not adhere to our "Leave No Trace" principles. We will look into this matter and make the needed changes to next year's race guidelines so that the Subaru Primal Quest can continue to draw attention to the pristine wilderness areas we've all been blessed with.

 

While we do not condone the actions of a few, we at Subaru Primal Quest feel the need to remind everyone of the positive aspects of our race. The Subaru Primal Quest donates a substantial portion of its sponsorship to charitable causes and governing agencies in and around the race area. These monies help local agencies and groups in a time when funding is scarce. While this doesn't offset the supposed damage done, it is an important aspect to consider when judging the overall impact of the Subaru Primal Quest.

 

Again, we apologize for any miscommunications between Subaru Primal Quest and it's support staff during the Exfoliation Dome course during our recent race. We look forward to working with your group during the next racing season!"

 

************************

 

To those that skim these posts and don't read the whole thing... THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL SUBARU RESPONSE! This is just what I think you're going to be up against. I believe Ketch's post points to this.

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

-kurt

[ketch]

One of the big hassles is the size of these events. SPQ did not have any helicopters but lots of folks like the spectacle that do. I talked with several of the racers during the open water kayak portion. The comment was that by far the worst water and wave conditions that they had to navigate were the downwash of the local news and tourist helo's coming in for a look.

 

I don't know about Larrabee. It was way vacant. At Moran they had a big party and let the whole community come. Same at Darrington, by Bayview there wasn't much party left.

[backcountrydog]

im curious if the people who placed the bolts were local guides, and if they were hired through their employers or as a side job thing. when i think 'local guide', i think of someone that should know better...

[dberdinka]

im curious if the people who placed the bolts were local guides, and if they were hired through their employers or as a side job thing. when i think 'local guide', i think of someone that should know better...

 

The primary developers of the course (i.e. bolters) were "from Colorado" as I was told. It seems that some last minute hiring of climbing guides from several local outfits occured to be used in support/cleanup roles. Evidently concerns were raised over what was being done and were summarily dismissed.

[backcountrydog]

to those that spoke up amidst a sea of dismissal...

[Rad]

Plan of action.

 

First, please remember:

 

A - Someone died in this race. Treading respectfully will be important.

 

B - The Seattletimes (and possibly national news services) ran an article that mentioned the race and the death. Thus, there is already media interest in this event. The pump has been primed, if you will.

 

This means that the race organizers have already been scrutinzed by the media and have probably implemented some program to deal with public relations.

 

I think there are many good suggestions in the thread above.

 

Based on those here is the course of action I recommend:

 

1 - Collect photos etc to document damage. Make sure to include non-cliff areas where damage may have ocurred.

 

2 - Contact the race organizers first in a respectful manner inquiring when and how they intend to complete their clean-up and removal of bolts etc. We hope they will 'do the right thing'.

 

3 - If that doesn't work contact the Forest service to notify them of our 'concerns', and suggest we hope the race organizers will 'do the right thing'.

 

4 - If these don't work then contact the media (Seattletimes for a start), describe the damage, and suggest that we all hope that the race organizers will 'do the right thing'.

 

5 - Get attorneys to put together a complaint in the event they failed to 'do the right thing'.

 

6 - Go watch a Spike Lee movie called....

 

Seriously, it's now time to put words into action. I would volunteer to write letters as necessary, or help edit them, when appropriate. Interested parties pm me to coordinate.

[mattp]

Rad -

 

I really don't think we want Primal Quest to come back and undertake further clean-up efforts at the dome. They actually had quite a large crew working on the clean-up last weekend and they did quite a bit in their slightly hurried rush to leave the place, but they are gone now and I don't want them back.

 

Its a mess, and I am saddened by what they left behind, but I'd much rather we complete any futher cleanup ourselves, using volunteers who care about that place. We've conducted crag clean-ups in the past, and we can do it again. By taking responsibilty in this manner, we would in no way excuse or condone what happened - but we'd take responsibility for solving a problem that has been thrust upon us without demanding any resources from the already strapped Forest Service office in Darrington.

 

If somebody intends to go up there and "check it out," please take a camera and take notes on what you find. Then lets organize our own work parties, as needed, and talk about what we can do to try to prevent this from happening again.

[ketch]

Matt, I think your right on about SPQ coming back to fix it. One suggestion is to really work on the land manager comprehension of what it means to us a group. One of the points I was trying to bring out in my previous post is that in my location they were very low impact. This was I think largely due to the land managers (rangers especially) setting down there foot ahead of time and spelling out what was and was not acceptable and how it was to be when they left. That was all accomplished before the event and for this problem that window has closed and so we need something differant.

[mattp]

The thing is, too, that there is not all that much that can readily be "fixed" at this point. I didn't rappel their lines, but I think we are going to find that they did indeed remove or chop most of their bolts. I know that they kicked rocks back on their tent platforms and some of their staging areas. I don't think there is any way to clean what sewage they've left behind (the guy I talked to yesterday said they packed it all out but I wouldn't recommend drinking the water up there now) and you can't put the bushes back together. We'll do what we can to help clean it up a little further and time will help heal the rest.

 

The real issue here is just that they had hundreds of people up there and it shows. I don't think large-scale commercial events should take place in that kind of environment, but this is more of a long-term issue that we can better address through focussed efforts based on careful reflection than through any immediate campaign of complaints.

[marylou]

Doing the clean-up on this would do a lot of good IMO in our attempts to build a better relationship between the climbing community and the FS.

 

If there is a clean-up day, I will let my friends know who participated in this year's race, and see if they can get more folks from the local AR community involved. If they see how much of a mess the SPQ people left behind, and then maybe they'd put pressure on SPQ to do better in the future.

 

FYI this event was covered nationally, it's a national event, and will be on TV in January.

[Greg_W]

We ARE the climbing community, marylou; that's why we're pissed.

[dbb]

I agree with matt and marylou's above posts. The event happened, the impact is there, and we should make it known that we are contributing to the clean up because we care for the place. I think an organized cleanup event would reflect well upon our community, and I’d be happy to organize it. What we need to realize is that Exfoliation dome is not ours and the Forest Service deemed that an adventure race here was an acceptable use of the land. Whether or not we agree with that, making our relationship with the FS in Darrington worse is not going to help us in the future. And the future is what is important.

 

I’ve been in contact with the rigger for the job, and from what I knew of his prior reputation he is exceptionally good at what he does. These people are not the enemy; they were doing their job, and meeting (my guess) the stipulations of the permit that the FS granted them. Let me note too that the local climbers who met these people, met them at the very beginning of a two-day cleanup effort, and formed their impressions then. I’m not saying that the place is clean and everything was done perfectly, but it would behoove us to go up and see firsthand before we really go making an ass of ourselves. They invite us to inspect their work, and we will.

 

The following are the details from the rigger. If you have further questions for them, you can direct them through me (post, PM, or email in profile).

 

There were two styles of bolts placed on the rig:

 

 

1. Expansion Bolts

 

2. Small rivets for securing edge protection.

 

 

 

The expansion bolts were placed in such a manner that the hole drilled was much deeper than the bolt itself. The bolts we purchased were removable. The removal was made by tapping the stud into the hole (once the nut and hangar were removed) thereby causing the expansion seal to be broken. At that point we used a small 'cat's claw' tool to pull them out and then we backfilled the holes with granite.

 

 

 

The rivets were 1/4 inch studs that we placed in partially drilled holes so that they were quite simple to remove due to the fact they were only inserted around 1/2 way (for edge protection only).

 

 

 

There were a handful of expansion bolts that we were unable to remove without excessively scarring the rock (every single rivet was removed) and we chose instead to push them down into the hole and cap them with granite. That exact count I do not have, but it was not very many.

 

 

 

We did not remove any of the existing bolts that we came across and there are dozens up there on the West face.

 

 

 

As far as waste management, our staff used plastic buckets with plastic sacks to create small commodes at three different locations. We flew out our waste via helicopter sling load. The racers used their own waste management practices (I believe Wag Bags) and I would refer that back to Dan as to what they were instructed on for that section of the course. Staff-wise, we left no human waste.

 

 

 

Following the derig of ropes and anchors, we dismantled bivy sites, back-cleaned all flagging tape and did thorough garbage sweeps for candy wrappers and anything else that may have been accidentally discarded.

 

 

 

Our staff was comprised of climbers, guides and riggers. We all use the backcountry for recreational as well as professional pursuits. We also all embrace the attitude that you should make every possible attempt to leave a place with as little impact as is possible. I feel that we represented Subaru Primal Quest and ourselves well in that regard. I would like to think that the local climbers and more importantly, the USFS, would feel the same if they went up to inspect the site. I am not claiming that we got every last piece of debris up on that hill, but every effort was made to do that and I know that we got a vast majority.

[mattp]

I've put a couple of pictures on the WCC website here: Washington Climbers Coalition web page

[marylou]

We ARE the climbing community, marylou; that's why we're pissed.

 

Good of you to note that, Greg.

[slothrop]

Well, it sounds like the riggers did a good job and I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt... but we should go up and look to make sure they didn't miss anything. I do agree that the larger issue is the overall impact of a herd of desperate, bonking adventure racers and their handlers: shitpiles, trampled veggies, PowerGel wrappers, etc.

 

Looks like Fairweather's been posting on the SPQ forum:

 

http://www3.subaruprimalquest.com/forums2.0/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=2&threadid=184