To link (pitches) or not to link

[chucK]

Is it nobler to do your 60m at all costs, or is it better to pull up short at a comfy belay?

 

I used to always try to stretch the rope (within reason) to the end. I'd do this in the interest of speed. Less belays, less changeovers, less pitches to reach objective.

 

But then, this seemed to just bite me the ass too many times.

 

Too many times I passed up that comfy belay ledge or bomber tree only to end up suffering at a slopey semi-hanging spot trying to keep the rope from tumbling down into a crack; or, freaking out while belaying the next two pitches wondering if the "best thing I could get" anchor would withstand the ultimate test. Too many times I grunted through 20 m of ever-increasing rope drag, making the pitch more of a chore than a fun recreation, just so I could stretch out the rope.

 

Now, I no longer believe that maximizing pitch length is the dominating criterion for where to stop and set up the belay, even when, or especially when, speed is an important consideration.

 

A couple of extra changeovers may not spend as much time as it would to have to fiddle and finagle setting up a complicated belay anchor. Those couple of extra changeovers may also take less time than one would waste trying to make changeovers on small awkward belay stations built for one (especially true if party is swinging leads).

 

I was expecting to make this a "discuss" topic, but now the post is looking more like a treatise. I guess I could still ask the question, "how much rope do you go through before you start considering a belay?". Obviously, you are not going to stop and put the next belay 10 feet above the previous one without very good reason (comfy armchair station with 3 large bolts and fridge full of beer).

 

What's your criterion for when to stop and setup the next station?

[Dru]

When climbing in the mountains: climb at least half the rope then start looking for a good belay. If no good belay when all rope is out, simulclimb.

 

link pitches when convenient. otherwise don't bother.

[Cpt.Caveman]

I stop when-

 

I'm more than half way on the rope.

There is good pro for anchor

There is good belay spot like a ledge or stance

 

Simul climbing is often a great option to continue a few more meters to a belay instead FUCKTARDED out there on some bullshit.

 

When I climb in mountains I dont use 60m ropes most of the time unless a guide says I need one. There are some good arguments for the changeover and more pitches thing. Which leads me back to a previous discussion where I thought 99% of the time 70 meter ropes were FUCKTARDED too.

 

BTW wtf does noble have to do with it? What does that mean ? Cooler? Most of the time I see a noble retard when there is a good ledge nearby they passed up.

[Ireneo_Funes]

I think bomber natural pro is a good reason to stop and set up a belay station, especially if you don't know what's ahead. A couple of weeks ago, we did the Open Book route on the Finger of Fate in ID. After the second belay station, you can either go about 25 feet and set up the third belay on a great ledge with good pro, or you can keep going and hope your rope'll reach to the next decent spot. Deciding to make the 3rd pitch ridiculously short was the right call. I'd rather break it up and keep it fun, rather than try to link and make it terrifying.

 

But if I was comfortable simul-climbing I'd probably answer differently. I'm not going for any speed records a la the Huber boys.

[Ireneo_Funes]

BTW wtf does noble have to do with it? What does that mean ? Cooler? Most of the time I see a noble retard when there is a good ledge nearby they passed up.

 

Chuck is making a clever literary allusion, Caveman!

[Cpt.Caveman]

Clever?

[Dru]

I think bomber natural pro is a good reason to stop and set up a belay station, especially if you don't know what's ahead. A couple of weeks ago, we did the Open Book route on the Finger of Fate in ID. After the second belay station, you can either go about 25 feet and set up the third belay on a great ledge with good pro, or you can keep going and hope your rope'll reach to the next decent spot. Deciding to make the 3rd pitch ridiculously short was the right call. I'd rather break it up and keep it fun, rather than try to link and make it terrifying.

 

But if I was comfortable simul-climbing I'd probably answer differently. I'm not going for any speed records a la the Huber boys.

 

why not just climb to the 3rd belay instead of using your second belay if the 3rd is only 25 feet higher?

[Ireneo_Funes]

I think bomber natural pro is a good reason to stop and set up a belay station, especially if you don't know what's ahead. A couple of weeks ago, we did the Open Book route on the Finger of Fate in ID. After the second belay station, you can either go about 25 feet and set up the third belay on a great ledge with good pro, or you can keep going and hope your rope'll reach to the next decent spot. Deciding to make the 3rd pitch ridiculously short was the right call. I'd rather break it up and keep it fun, rather than try to link and make it terrifying.

 

But if I was comfortable simul-climbing I'd probably answer differently. I'm not going for any speed records a la the Huber boys.

 

why not just climb to the 3rd belay instead of using your second belay if the 3rd is only 25 feet higher?

 

Next time I might do that. It was our first time on the route and the 2nd belay station seemed like a pretty obvious spot (complete w/ ancient piton). There'd be a little rope drag if you skipped our 2nd belay station.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, I'd probably try to go for the nice ledge that we made our 3rd station. I was giving this as an example of how we decided to set up our stations on a route that we'd never done before, though.

[chucK]

Agree about the 70m ropes. I get annoyed by 60m ropes even. A 60m is probably pretty good for a skinny rope doubled while simulclimbing. Doubling up a 50 is just too short.

 

70m ropes are good for people who like ropedrag or those who want to able to toprope Thin Fingers from the ground.

[Ireneo_Funes]

Clever?

 

I guess cleverness is subjective. Chuck was alluding to the famous speech in Hamlet where the sullen prince says something like:

 

"To link, or not to link: that is the question:

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer

The slings and arrows of outrageous belays

Or to make an anchor against a sea of troubles,

And by rappelling end them?"

 

...at least that's how I remember it.

Edited September 17, 2004 by Ireneo_Funes

[bobbyperu]

i like linking pitches to link natural features, and challenge myself by managing drag, proper route finding, and simply not having to stop climbing.

 

recently did a new route with three friends and we all seemed to luck out, and find good stances or ledges at right around 60m... when youre out there in unknown terrain, i think i'm scoping features to make the ascent possible, and guessing how far it may be... adventure.

one pitch( the last) outa 5 was inconvienenty stretched out as i passed a huge ledge to try and make the lower angled treed terrain above( easy, comfy natural belays)... i had to stop at a shitty stance @ 60m, bring the 2 of them up simul, to the big ledge i passed,where they put in a belay with the gear cleaned, put me back on, and i was able to cruize up to directly beneath the summit block with a perfect natural belay. we then boulderd on up...done.

 

sometimes it works out, other times if you know the route and remeber stopping short when you could have continued stretched the rope and found as good or better belay i like to do it.

 

also if i can put as much rope out as possible by linking to reduce fall factors on gear at cruxy bits, i'll take the pump factor over the fall factor most times, makes me feel safer.

 

i think theres definatly shortcomings with linking stuff, as mentioned prior, but its fun when it works out and you cover alot of ground effeciently, quickness really only means more climbing in the day, or being able to climb a bit then do other things with your day... reducing changeovers sves time, but then again they can be good too

[John Frieh]

I personally prefer 70 m ropes especially twins or doubles... For all alpine I take the 70s. No problem with rope drag either.

 

I guess I like them as it is easier to link 2 pitches into 1 (or at WA pass 3 pitches into 1).

[Rad]

On moderate terrain where you're comfortable simul-climbing then s t r e t c h i t o u t.

 

On steeper rock where I'm not comfortable simul climbing then I find it's usually better to stop at the belay. Going farther often results in extra time spent trying to find gear placements or a comfy stance. Downclimbing takes even more time.

 

Some pitches are short because ropedrag, sharp flakes, vegetation, or some other item would make extending them dangerous or annoying. Other belays are pre-determined by where the 1st ascentionists put their manky bolts.

 

If the climb was put up with a 50m rope it may be best to climb with that. A longer rope will tempt you into climbing farther on each pitch than is optimal (see above), will tangle around you if you do stop short, and is heavier anyway.

 

Finally, speed is not everything.

 

Don't forget to smell the guano and admire the advancing storm clouds!

[Coondog]

Some pitches are short because ropedrag, sharp flakes, vegetation, or some other item would make extending them dangerous or annoying.

 

Devils Tower, 3 weeks ago: my partner decides to skip past the first belay station (a large, flat ledge atop a pillar), beneath a 25' 5.10b thin finger crack / dihedral. Placed 2 pieces of pro on that section, then froze on the topout move...

 

With 3/4 of my 60m rope out, i guessed rope-stretch to be about 15-20' should he fall, and he was 8' above his last piece, which equated to him decking. He reached for a piece of pro & peeled. I jumped from the spot I was belaying at down at my pack roughly 8' below me and did a big rope-pull at the same time. Still, rope only began to catch his weight at roughly 6-8' above the 1st belay ledge.

 

He hit hard, and lay there moaning in pain for roughly 5 minutes before I could get him to respond. The Climbing Ranger was there, and we got him down and checked him out ASAP... He didn't break anything fortunately, but was limping for a week after.

 

If he hadn't linked the pitches, he wouldn't have decked, plain & simple. Rope-stretch and gear placement.

 

Only venting on this since I spent an afternoon sketched out and monitoring my friends health instead of cranking on amazing dihedrals... and hope you don't have to.

 

--cd.

[Bug]

Ouch.

[Bill_Simpkins]

Yes, longer pitches = more rope stretch.

 

I agree with Dru. On moutnains, start looking for a belay when half the rope is out. Once it took me till the end of the rope to find one. No good pro for 30 meters.

 

Otherwise, I usually will only link pitches on easy terrain or routes I am very familiar with.

The amount of gear you have also warrents when to stop.

Sometimes I get to the belay with a ton of gear left, and if the line is straight, I may go for it.