chalkball Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I know I have seen a list somewhere of markers that are "safe" to use on ropes...I tried a couple of searches here and couldn't find anything. Is the issue that there is a chemical (in some markers) that degrades the sheath? I am a big fan of the bi-pattern, myself - but I have a friend who wants to mark their rope. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Crash Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Bluewater sells a marking pen (non-permanent) to mark their ropes (the one I got on sale doesn't have two patterns; bi-patterns are not that easy to find, actually). I should have gotten one for mine. UIAA and rope manufacturers don't recommend marking with a pen anymore, even though they have done so in the past and "approved" certain pens. As you said, the issue is the remote risk of chemical contamination and damaging the rope in unexpected and invisible ways. I may simply mark mine with some sail repair thread (heavily coated nylon) wrapped and sewn in the middle (shallow through the sheath). drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I defy someone to show me a rope cut at the middle because a sharpie pen was used to mark it. I believe the main reason sharpies are not recommended is that there is no control over the fluid they use to transport the ink. They may be safe right now, but the company is under no obligation to warn you if they change the formula to something that destroys climbing ropes. This is not a recommendation for or against sharpie pens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 i mark mine with a bloodstain where the last snaffle to attempt to chew on the rope met his/her demise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korup Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Bluewater makes a marker specifically for this, it doesn't last forever, but works well. They supposedly did significant research and control the manufacture closely (dyes, binders, solvents, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogen Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 http://www.uiaa.ch/article.aspx?a=78&c=1 http://www.alpineclubofcanada.ca/services/safety/Marking%20of%20Ropes.doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I defy someone to show me a rope cut at the middle because a sharpie pen was used to mark it. Exactly dude. But the question remains "Whats a mother to do"? I too need to mark a rope. - I'm not sure I've ever known anyone who took a true fall factor 2 fall either, but knowing that the rope is weaker after marking......well,........... I'm not going to buy a rope which is taped like I made the mistake on the last Edelrid I purchased about a year ago. I didn't pay attention before I bought it. (My bad) The tape must have stayed on for at least 15 min. and is long gone and the rope still unmarked: I think I will mark it anyway.....(indecision) ........but......at least Maummut got "it" figured out. My last rope was a Maummut and very well permantly marked in the middle. from the site noted above- " Mammut tested the "Rope Marker", a pen sold by Beal. The reduction was 50 % for the non-dry and 17 % for the superdry rope. Mammut tested five days and four weeks after application. The capacity reduction was more for tests done four weeks after application. " If a product especially formulated for climbing ropes by a top rope Mfg. leaves it 50% weaker ..doesn't kind of makes you wonder about a sharpie - which was not tested. It makes me wonder if fabric dye shouldn't be checked out, meantime, maybe use a little real light Beal marker action and assume a potential 50% reduction? What does that mean in reality to us anyway, that it is now a 5 fall rope instead of a 10 fall? If I had to choose, it would be nice to have it marked in the middle. However, thinking of some of the jugging fixed ropes moments, well, I'm about to wet myself just thinking of the bouncing bouncing bouncing as you jug up, not pleased at that point that you had purchased the lightweight/thinner model of rope, not being able to even see the mark you put on the rope with the marker, which is so far out of sight as you jug, and you intuitively know it is undoubtly rubbing right on the only sharp spot in the entire route with every step you take. So.................. "Whats a mother to do"? Choosy mothers choose Maummut." And mother f*er's who don't pay attention get tape in the middle and sit around indecisivly like me. Curious what some of you others have decided to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenT Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Electrical tape works great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Tape works fine if it comes off or gets mangled you have extra lying around anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I remember that UIAA study coming out and all the uproar surrounding it. I remember there being some issues with the study but don't remember the outcome. I still don't see how the pen can do any damage to the kern of the rope. I have a bi-weave rope. The worst thing about the tape is when it starts sliding down the rope, so you have a fake middle mark. Best thing to do in my opinion is know how many "flakes" it takes to flake your rope. Then you can easily tell when you are halfway. That's where the "yard" unit of measure comes from if I'm not mistaken. It also makes it easy to divide up the rope for glaciers, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I would like to rope marked in 5 meter increments. For example 5 meters from the end would be one mark. 10 meters from the end would be 2 marks. The middle would be 6 marks. This lets the belaying person an idea of how much rope is left instead of guessing from the wad laying on the ground. (60 meter ropes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klenke Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Gordon Bennett, Stefan, that's BRILLIANT. Simply BRILLIANT! Good on you. Cheers mate. Right you are. And all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 sewing some thread into the middle works well, if a little labor-intensive. You can see AND feel the halfway mark, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketch Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Iain, I remember that too. If I remember correct the rage about the study was that they showed a significant reduction if the fall occured on the mark. When the marker was layed direct on the edge and took the fall they found a strength loss. If the marker was somewhere that was absorbing the fall there was little reduction. It was something like that. Lots of comments that I seem to remember centered around the mark being at the biener when the fall occured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Stefan - Edelweiss makes their nice stratos ropes with a similar weave (changes near the ends, but not quite like you are suggesting). ketch - thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 This might be the answer? Your thoughts? http://www.uhartrescue.com/ropecare.html "PMI TEC Rope Marker - .4oz This ink will not damage ropes, but the carrier solution in some pens could. PMI's TEC Rope Marker from Sharpie is the only pen that is batch tested for 24 trace elements, making it the only pen you can really trust for marking your rope. Black. " Also- Beal has packaged their product differntly: could this be a new formula as well as a new package? http://professionalropes.com/anglais/corde_pro2.html " Beal has developed a special ink for marking ropes, in the middle as well as at the ends. This ink hardly stiffens the rope, is water resistant, and stands up to abrasion well. NB: it dœs not affect polyamide. The container has a small roller at the tip for better inking." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_e Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I seem to remember something about a mammut rope marked with three different colors. Like it was on color in the middle and another color towards the ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryad Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 You may be thinking about THIS. The rope comes marked in the middle and 5m from either end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 I just rec'd a post from Jeff Maudlin of Black Diamond. He forwarded extensive info that the Beal pens work fine on ropes. I'm at work and wanted to post quick, I'll detail it later, for now- just know it's fine to use the Beal rope marker on ropes. (3 of then are JPG;s of documents, not sure how to link those) Refer to Iains post above concerning lack of failures, makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Crash Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Can you post those JPGEGs re: Beal's pen? attach the files to the post. Thanks, drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_H Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 http://www.barrabes.com/barrabes/product.asp?dept_id=152&pf_id=4748&opt= I used this since 2000, still alive Wet the rope before applying. Either R&I or Climbing had a little "Ask PMI" insert about this and PMI said it was OK to use markers. I might be able to look it up for you, if there is time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Can you post those JPGEGs re: Beal's pen? attach the files to the post. Thanks, drC Yes: but the crap is saved on my work computer and were swamped/even weekends. I'll try and do it soon. Sorry, I spaced it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockymountainboy Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I bought a rope last year that came with a little card that said Marks-a-lot brand markers were safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Also- Beal has packaged their product differntly: could this be a new formula as well as a new package? link "Beal has developed a special ink for marking ropes, in the middle as well as at the ends. This ink hardly stiffens the rope, is water resistant, and stands up to abrasion well. NB: it dœs not affect polyamide. The container has a small roller at the tip for better inking." The Beal thingy is not at all like a sharpie marker. It's a bottle of really messy ink that seems to soak in to the rope quite well, and comes, like they say, with a roller tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Crash Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Mammut still claims that they used Beal's "Rope Marker" (the name they use for that bottle of ink) and that the rope strength was still dramatically reduced (when the mark was on edge). This is so confusing I'm gonna sew some sail repair thread around the middle of my rope. drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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