8k trip buddies

[Ade]

It's a slow day so here goes...

 

My whole thing is why the heck can't a person do this without paying out the nose? How hard is it to get a roundtrip ticket on Thai Airlines to Katmandu, lodging in Katmandu, hire a local climbing guide, hire some sherpas, rent the gear you couldn't bring, buy the food you weren't allowed to bring into the country, pay the park entrance fees, and climb any mountain for under $10,000! I am not buying into the "pay for climbing" pnenomena and claimed safety sales pitch these companies pretend to put on. Just look at the 1997 tradegy. ...no thank you. True expedition style is the way to go!

 

Sure you can do this yourself but there are good reasons for enlisting help at some level:

 

1) Slightly larger groups are more cost effective. For the most part peak fees don't scale linearly with number of climbers, your team shares the cost of one Liaison Officer regardless of the number of climbers, unless it's very large it will also share one cook and sirdar. Guided groups maximize the savings by either bringing together climbers who would otherwise have formed separate teams and adding trekkers to the group who share the cost to basecamp. You can increase the size of your team too but it's a lot more work.

 

2) You don't need field staff and managers but they will save you time and money by; sorting out a lot of logistics before you arrive and knowing where to get reasonable deals on equipment and services. They will probably have relationships with people they've used in the past, this means you'll end up with a Sirdar who isn't an asshole, porters who do their job and a cook who can. Hiring these people cold is a increases the odds that you'll have problems later.

 

3) You can get a permit yourself but based on my experience with the IMF I might have done a lot better with an agent in Delhi pushing my application through. For the larger peaks the permits are booked well in advance, if you want to go within a year then your only option may be with a guided trip that already has a permit or to buy into someone else's permit at a premium - depending on the peak this may be costly.

 

You can mitigate 2 & 3 by using a reputable "agent" who will do a lot of the in-country work for you and provide reliable staff, transport and services. Some agents will also help with permits etc. Again your paying for climbing but not for a guide. Several others have mentioned other US based services that do the same, get you to the base of something and let you get on with it. They might even help with 1.

 

For one of Nepal's trekking peaks it's perfectly possible to do what you describe, just show up in Katmandu. I don't believe you can do this for a 8k peak simply because of the level of logistics involved and the permit issues.

 

I did exactly what you suggest for a 6k peak in India with a team of two and it took a year to put the thing together. It was fun but I did it because I wanted to not to save money. I've not tried an 8k peak with O2 but I can't see this being any easier. If you haven't been to the Greater Ranges then I would suggest that your chances of failure on an 8k peak are very high with this approach. Go do some smaller peaks first to figure it out. Accuracy is important, getting all the logistics right requires a lot of organization.

 

Assembling a team to climb a really big objective from people you met on the internet... Denali is full of teams just like that having all sorts of issues. There are lots of stories - my favourite involves the Hummingbird on Logan.

 

The idea that there a lots of people getting rich off running guides expeditions is ludicrous. Otherwise it would be guides would be driving around in Hummer H2s not doctors and dentists.

[bDubyaH]

i was just curious if you had been on an expedition, because i spent the last two years working on logistics for an unguided trip to china to climb some unclimbed 6000+ m peaks, we leave saturday. it takes a ton of effort, granted we are going to a very remote area, but just organizing the food needed is a huge task. then you have to think about permits, rescue options, transportation, if you want sherpas, cooks, all the basecamp amenities on and on. yes all this can be organized on your own, but honestly it would be much easier to work with an agency and pay them to take care of logistics, you can tailor the trip however you want, but it will save you about a year of planning (time better spent actually climbing) and you will only be paying about grand or two extra for the services...well worth it

just my $.02

[bDubyaH]

What Ade said

[Ade]

The trips I did were self organized and unguided. I also figured you saved about $1-2k per person over a paid trip. This doesn't scale to 8k trips with O2 and lots of porters etc. The markup is more because the logistics, risk and market demand are all greater.

[Dru]

Ade did you find any burkshards or "hanging" cornices ( I didnt know there were any other kind? ) on your 6000m summits or do you think these hazards are only found in the DEATH ZONE

[iain]

I believe the correct nomenclature is "bergstroms"

[JoshK]

007, have you even climbed anything at all? From your witty banter here, it isn't evident if you are a climber looking to do an 8k peak, or just some random wank who has watched one too many climbing shows on the outdoor life network.

[007_dup1]

Checked out the Ogawa-mtnadv.com and must say it is a little better than the usual "Pay for Climbs". I like the fact they offer high altitude sherpas for $100/day. This is what I'm talking about! I want to represent a climbing group that feels like they shouldn't have to pay for "stuff" they don't need or otherwise wouldn't purchase just because it is an 8000 meter peak. This is not a Shangra-la trip for us, it will be strickly a summit!!

[007_dup1]

Ade, thank you for your post. I am on a layover and have time to finally respond. From the sounds of it you come across as experienced and a good guy with good advice.

 

I can understand the cost effective scaling, do you know which mountains are better fitted to smaller groups? This will probably be a deciding factor in choosing the right 8k peak.

 

I haven't had too much trouble getting local assistance on previous climbing/trekking adventures throughout the world. Lots of 'em are eager for work and I will not bring with me arrogance. I wouldn't want the cook to poison us, so I hear what your saying.

[oregonbob]

007:

 

What have you climbed before?

[Ricardo_Montalban]

I haven't had too much trouble in the past showing foriegners the US Dollar and taking it from there.

 

does not groove with

 

I am not the type of guy that will act like the usual arrogant american.

[007_dup1]

...that did sound strange. Anyway I just want to say that there are NO RULES to climbing ...also a person can call an obstacle whatever he/she wants. "Pay for Climbing" is a con with so many hands in the pot! There is a false sense of security too.

[oregonbob]

007:

With this attitude of yours you will never summit an 8,000 meter peak. Do you understand what you are saying?

Sounds like you are one of those that labels yourself as a climber, but does not want to do the work, training, and skills it takes to be a great climber.

[willstrickland]

Sniff.....sniff.....Yup, I smell a big fat hairy Troll...yup.

[griz]

yeah, you are probably right, will. If not though...

 

When you realize having a life for the near future other than dealing with logistics is better than dropping a little extra money then contact Dan Mazur...

 

his website

 

 

[MervGriffin]

[007_dup1]

Hey thanx for the information! Checked out the summitclimb.com website and must say it looks somewhat decent. Still a "PAY TO CLIMB" company though.

 

I realize since my original posting that probably a lot of viewers on Cascadeclimbers.com are somehow related with climbing businesses and have an invested interest in promoting "PAY TO CLIMB" services.

 

As for summitclimb.com, why pay $8000 for services that would normally be cheaper than average in a 3rd world country? Why do they claim to be associated with so many associations? Are these their selling points? It is still overpriced, someone could hire climbing sherpas, eat 3 hot meals per day, and use the local transportation for like $100/day. People are being mislead into thinking big summits are big bucks, I say BS! ..by the way what is etcetera?

 

Anyone can set up a climbing company and a claim a BS safety record. They can charge climbers whatever they feel they can get away with, upwards of $65,000 right? When the weather rolls in or the ice decides to let loose, then it is when the true follow-the-leader game begins! Did i miss something? What happen to the true expiditions? Are peoples' balls get smaller as a whole?

[slothrop]

..by the way what is etcetera?

 

It's Latin, meaning "and Cetera", as in Peter Cetera.

 

So if someone says, "For your 8K expedition, you'll need 200 lb. of horsecock, 50 lb. of Gore-Tex, some actual climbing experience, suckers to carry your gear, etcetera," they mean you'll want this guy along with you for "Inspiration":

 

 

Good luck!

[007_dup1]

OregonBob, sounds like you disagree. Please share some things on what it takes to be a good climber?

 

afterall that is why we are on this message board, right? ...not to be good spellers or to prove ourselves with pictures of our dolls.

[ken4ord]

Dood, no matter what you are going to pay to climb, so I don't know why you keep saying that. Yes is cost money to climb, sometimes just gas and food to get you to and from the crag, other times for bigger mountains in far off reaches, airfare, porters, equipment, blah, blah, blah. Also, I don't know about you, but my free time is worth quite a bit to me. So paying a little extra to have someone take care of all the logistics of doing a 8000m peak in some other country would be way worth it. Some of these trips that people have posted about on this thread seem like great deals, and possibly a lot cheaper than what you are going to be able to do on your own, especially when you start to consider all the time you are going to spend searching out the best deal and who to rely on for services.

 

As for what happened to true expeditons, I would say they still happen, (flip open a climbing mag sometime, usually all kinds of articles people on expeditions) but most of the time it is with people who have known each other and climbed together. They are most likely people who have been to where ever they are going, know who to deal with, know the area, know what to pay, basically know what to expect. Myself personally would love to go do an 8k peak sometime, but I tell ya it won't be on a trip that is organized on a message board with people I don't know. That is just dumb. Hitting the crags or the local mountains with someone I don't know is one thing, but planning a big trip like this is silly. I would much rather plan something with one or a couple of my friends and climb alpine style or OMG, pay to climb with some organized trip, where all I have to focus on is training and catching a plane on time.

 

Just some food for thought.

 

Man I can believe I writing in on this troll, I guess I am just a sucker.

[sobo]

..by the way what is etcetera?

 

It's Latin, meaning "and Cetera", as in Peter Cetera.

 

So if someone says, "For your 8K expedition, you'll need 200 lb. of horsecock, 50 lb. of Gore-Tex, some actual climbing experience, suckers to carry your gear, etcetera," they mean you'll want this guy along with you for "Inspiration":

 

 

Good one, Ralph! You're killin' me!

 

BTW, 007: You still haven't answered The Burning Question that's been posed several times now... WTF have you climbed?

 

And oh yeah, what ken4ord said.

[oregonbob]

007:

Again we want to know what you have climbed? Or, are you a BIG fraud. Talking like the way you are is not showing us that you are a good climber. Do you even understand how much time, cost, and skills it takes to even try to climb an 8,000 meter peak?

Step 1: To become a good climber is having common sense, which you are demonstrating to us that you are really lacking.

Step 2: Is to actually climb some mountains. The way you talk shows us you have no climbing skills, or even know what it takes to climb. I would be really surprised if you have climbed anything. What type of rock, ice, or glacier climbing skills do you have?

Do you understand how many people here reading your posts think that you don't even belong on a mountain?

Forget climbing and take up swimming Son!

[griz]

 

As for summitclimb.com, why pay $8000 for services that would normally be cheaper than average in a 3rd world country? Why do they claim to be associated with so many associations? Are these their selling points? It is still overpriced, someone could hire climbing sherpas, eat 3 hot meals per day, and use the local transportation for like $100/day. People are being mislead into thinking big summits are big bucks, I say BS! ..by the way what is etcetera?

 

 

Hmmm...let's see...a 8000m peak is most likely a 60 day trip... so with your planned $100 a day budget it will run you $6000 dollars then tack on your airfare of $1500 and you have a $7500 trip. Wow, dude, you just saved $500 dollars. Of course you spent a year of headaches to save that wad of cash.

 

Mazur's services are scaleable from him just getting a permit and a couple sherpas for your group to being full on guided by a 8000m vet. I'd look into it but you don't sound like the type to listen to people with experience.

 

Have fun and good luck. I think you are in over your head personally(if you are even for real).

 

last post to this pointless thread

Edited July 28, 2004 by griz

[oregonbob]

Also, I agree with many others that why are you trying to organize a 8,000 meter peak trip on this site?

Maybe you need to check the title again of this site. It is called cascadeclimbers.com Not Organizean8000meterpeakclimb.com Like others have said this is a great site to get climbs together in the Cascades, but NOT a good idea to organize an 8000 meter peak climb. My question is how old are you? You could be just some little kid trying to fire us all up.

God help us all if you are an adult, and this is the way you think.

[Pandora]

troll troll troll