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RobBob

EcoTopia

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I found a copy on the shelf of the used bookstore, right next to A Sand County Almanac and other similar titles. Read it over the course of a couple of flights. What a pile of shit. Some guy's fantasy of over-the-top environmentalism, communism, and free love all wrapped up into one.

 

This was an impulse read. My girlfriend in college used to read the books of that genre. In retrospect, I don't know how she and I got along so well, other than the fact that she liked to fuck a lot and so did I.

 

Isn't the enviro movement in large part a club of extremists, each trying to out-do each other in demonstrating commitment to the cause? Does a reasonable, relaxed "conservative" environmentist contingent really exist?

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I like the part where they take down the helicopters with slingshots. That was funny.

 

- a s s m * n k e y

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Unfortunately, there are a few select cc.com members who still subscribe to this eco-topia idea. I could name them, but I think most know who they are.

 

The book that most influenced my younger thought was written by a Democrat!

 

0060975989.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

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Hmmm... well I'm a big ol' liberal environmentalist....

I do tons of extremist stuff like;

Recently putting 300 acres of land in Roslyn into conservation... It's pretty horrible that I'm stopping un checked development and now they can only build 1000 new homes between Roslyn & Salmon La Sac instead of 3100.

 

Oh... I've also been working hard to get Washington people to support local farms and local food- making sure farmers can continue their way of life and that local folks have access to safe, healthy food.

 

Oh yeah... I was part of a group that went up against another major developer in the state and we forced them to do things like...

reduce overall development by 20%

limit light pollution so people can still see the stars

protect wildlife corridors

created easments so that the land adjacent to the rivers remains in public hands

Oh, yeah... and made sure that anyone working on their projects now and into the future will be paid wages consistent with union prevailing wages so that local families can afford to live there as their taxes and costs of living increase due to the development.

 

Better watch out for us liberal environmentalists.

 

We're a scary bunch!

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I just saw a commercial where people are playing frisbee... in their cars. Umm... yeah. When the overdevelopment-induced pestilence comes, we're probably gonna deserve it.

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Hmmm... well I'm a big ol' liberal environmentalist....

I do tons of extremist stuff like;

 

Oh... I've also been working hard to get Washington people to support local farms and local food- making sure farmers can continue their way of life and that local folks have access to safe, healthy food.

 

 

 

 

...you mean the farmer who can now only use a portion of the land he owns because extremists like you have declared wetlands preservation trumps food production and said farmers right to earn a living?? Of course, you paid him fair market value for this taking. rolleyes.gif

 

The same farmer who's heirs will likely sell his farm to a developer so they can pay the inheritance tax? Another left wing-nut sacred cow.

 

You sound like just another WASHPirg lawyer to me. You sound like you'd be a fine Eco-topia party apparatchnik.

 

BTW, I'm sure the fine people in Roslyn are thrilled to have you and your Seattle know-it-all immigrant ilk there to tell them how things should be.

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Hmmm... I meantion protecting local farms and farmers and you hear.... that I'm trumping food production....

 

I sound like a WASHPirg lawyer? It doesn't sound like your listening.

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Hmmm... I meantion protecting local farms and farmers and you hear.... that I'm trumping food production....

 

I sound like a WASHPirg lawyer? It doesn't sound like your listening.

 

 

Looks like a certain "environmental educator" (from your bio) could use the services of a "spelling educator". moon.gif

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"Oh... I've also been working hard to get Washington people to support local farms and local food- making sure farmers can continue their way of life and that local folks have access to safe, healthy food."

 

Serious question. Exactly how are you promoting these objectives?

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I do tons of extremist stuff like;

Recently putting 300 acres of land in Roslyn into conservation... It's pretty horrible that I'm stopping un checked development and now they can only build 1000 new homes between Roslyn & Salmon La Sac instead of 3100.

 

well, well...who felt the need to go get another avatar just to answer this thread?

 

My question to you is: Did you put 300 acres of your land into conservation? Or did you meddle with someone else's land ownership?

 

Let's get to the nitty-gritty here. Who on the planet isn't in favor of 'saving the environment?' So if you want to conserve or preserve land, then use your hard-earned or inherited capital, pay market price for that land, and preserve the land. But if you fall into that group of passive-aggressives that have no land or capital themselves, but spend a lot of time telling other private landowners what they can or can't do with their land, you need to take a look in the mirror and realize that you are an intellectually-dishonest punk.

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No, the land was purchased.

 

On helping out the farms, there's lots of ways...

Working with Olympia to get farm produce in the schools so kids have better, fresh food and the farmers have a consistent local buyer. Connecting urban people to farms where they can buy partnerships and get local food weekly - better fruits and produce than Safeway.... Putting together entrepreneurship programs so farmers can learn better ways to market their product and get it out to a larger audience... the list goes on.

 

But I doubt that I'll continue posting here because the last thing I need is to wake up in the morning to being called an intellectually-dishonest punk, left-wing nut. Whatever.

 

Oh, and yeah I do live in both Seattle and Roslyn, but my family has been there for about a hundred years... so, yeah,, I guess we immigrated there a hundred years ago....

 

You people are rad! Nice climbing community here. I'll get right onto that partner's list since other opinions are so welcome.

 

And nope, I'm not one of your buddies fucking with you. Just someone passing through calling you out on your gas-bag bullshit.

 

Meanwhile, I'm going to go to work and actually get more of this work done. I'll work especially hard at it today just for you.

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$5 says he's a bullshitter.

 

Just someone passing through calling you out on your gas-bag bullshit.

 

Meanwhile, I'm going to go to work and actually get more of this work done. I'll work especially hard at it today just for you.

 

...and you're especially vague about exactly what it is you really do. I'm calling you out. Hi j_b...or SC... wave.gif

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$5 says he's a bullshitter.

 

Makes me want to cut down an old-growth redwood, saw it into 2X4's just to knock him upside the head with one. Bwahahahahaha!!!!! the_finger.gif

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my bad. reading blue tuberosa's posts, it appears that she's new and she's for real.

 

welcome to spray! thumbs_up.gif for the record, I didn't call you a punk---unless you are one of those people trying to tell me what I can and cannot do with my land! smile.gif

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$5 says he's a bullshitter.

 

Makes me want to cut down an old-growth redwood, saw it into 2X4's just to spank her hippy ass with one. Bwahahahahaha!!!!! the_finger.gif

 

Thanks for the gender clarification...

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I like the part where they take down the helicopters with slingshots. That was funny.

 

- a s s m * n k e y

 

D00d i just had a flashback to like Land of the Lost or Land That Time Forgot or something where they always manage to kill a dinosaur by building a giant slingshot out of two springy trees Geek_em8.gif

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Hmmm... well I'm a big ol' liberal environmentalist....

I do tons of extremist stuff like;

 

Oh... I've also been working hard to get Washington people to support local farms and local food- making sure farmers can continue their way of life and that local folks have access to safe, healthy food.

 

 

 

 

...you mean the farmer who can now only use a portion of the land he owns because extremists like you have declared wetlands preservation trumps food production and said farmers right to earn a living?? Of course, you paid him fair market value for this taking. rolleyes.gif

 

The same farmer who's heirs will likely sell his farm to a developer so they can pay the inheritance tax? Another left wing-nut sacred cow.

 

You need to do a little research. Wetlands on farmed land are exempt from regulations under the Clean Water Act section 404 if they have been continually farmed since 1988. In addition, there are numberous "assistance" programs for farmers to provide incentives for them to replant these areas in native vegetation or to not plow them. It's a rather generous program.

 

So before blasting off on the republican talking points investigate a little first. wave.gif

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But once you take that "assistance," that's it. No more prior-converted wetland status for you. And you damn well better mow that fallow field on the back forty before small saplings make you lose the ag status!

 

My two beefs with "wetlands:"

 

1. The definition of a "wetland" is totally arbitrary. You and I can both put forward what our idea of a wetland is, and we're likely to never agree. To me, wetland means marsh or swamp. To you, wetland means hydric soil/presence of wetland plants/seasonal high water table. The gulf between our definitions is millions and millions of acres. You say my definition is too small and doesn't take into account land that functions as a site for wildlife that are found in marshes and swamps. I say that you are just trying to make the definition as broad as possible in order to restrict people's use of land. There is no "correct" definition of wetland.

 

2. The logging industry gets a complete pass on wetlands restrictions, yet they perhaps change the habitat more permanently than any other industry. what bullshit. I shouldn;t be restricted from using my land if they aren't. thumbs_down.gif

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actually farming changes habitat WAAAAAY more permanently than logging. a clearcut grows back but converting a forest to a farm perpetuates the clerarcut for hundreds of years.

 

and urbanization is worse than either!

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...then address population growth head-on, dru. and the logging around me grows back---as pine, when it often was hardwood beforehand. totally different environment.

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