Kerry memorialized at Ho Chi Minh City museum

[sk]

Saw Dan Larson in the "who's online" last week. Started to PM him and ask what all he's climbed in the last couple of years and what (if anything) besides Ranier. Then I though, "nah, who cares, HE SUCKS".

except wheeeel he just gavr me a giggle

[Stonehead]

This is boring...

 

 

After supper she got out her book and learned me about Moses and the Bulrushers and I was in a sweat to find out all about him; but by and by she let it out that Moses had been dead a considerable long time; so then I didn't care no more about him, because I don't take no stock in dead people. (p2)

 

--The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Mark Twain

[slothrop]

Thanks, Teddy. I agree that, upon reading the law and the excerpts from the Boston Globe article, it seems like Kerry's meeting could have been in violation of that law. However, Kerry has never been tried and never convicted of breaking the law in this case. Has anyone ever been?

 

To me, the law is much too broadly worded and deserves to be broken. If I sent an email to saddam@iraq.com a couple years ago, telling him that he better let in those weapons inspectors or else we'd tear down his pretty statues, I could be prosecuted for attempting to "influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States." Since I obviously have no official capacity within the US government (and neither did Kerry in 1971), my "correspondence" carries no legal weight, and certainly couldn't be construed to be the official policy of the US.

 

Kerry did nothing wrong in talking with the North Vietnamese and trying to influence his government to negotiate with them. He wanted to end the war, which wasn't going well for America. One of the provisions of the "treaty" proposed by the VVAW was that all US POWs would be immediately released back to the US. That sounds like a vote of support for our soldiers and airmen.

[johndavidjr]

As one may imagine Mr. Kerry isn't going to be prosecuted any time soon (an absurd thought), so can your strangeness enlighten us rabble as to how citizens' efforts to end the war at the time were counter to U.S. interests?

[cracked]

you guys are so boring it hurts

Ain't it the truth!

[Fat_Teddy]

FT, your links assert that Kerry talked to the Vietnamese in Paris. I'm glad he did. I hope his actions helped shorten or end the war. I don't, however, see any clear proof in your links that Kerry had

intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States

I think Kerry's heroic behavior in combat in Vietnam gave him a right to criticize the war. You still haven't demonstrated any substance to your charge of "aiding and abetting."

 

HEH, nice try, rest stop boy. I know it, and you know it.

 

Thanks, Teddy. I agree that, upon reading the law and the excerpts from the Boston Globe article, it seems like Kerry's meeting could have been in violation of that law. However, Kerry has never been tried and never convicted of breaking the law in this case. Has anyone ever been?

 

I don't know if anyone has ever been tried, or convicted, under this law. People make the argument, albeit not a very strong one, that it were these talks with protestors such as kerry that ended the negotiations.

 

Kerry did nothing wrong in talking with the North Vietnamese and trying to influence his government to negotiate with them. He wanted to end the war, which wasn't going well for America.

 

Certainly there was something wrong with it. The administration was in Paris at the same time trying to negotiate. You don't think the VietCong knew American policy is heavily influenced by American sentiment? You don't think having people traveling to meet with the enemy emboldened them? You don't think saying the US is "murdering 200,000 Vietnamese a year" helps their cause?

 

He did a similar thing in Nicaragua 20 years later. It's a habit with him.

[mtn_mouse]

Hey Flat Ted,

Kerry went to war then came home and tried to stop war. Bush avoided war, and is now trying to start wars.

Whats ur point??

[Fat_Teddy]

Hey Flat Ted,

Kerry went to war then came home and tried to stop war. Bush avoided war, and is now trying to start wars.

Whats ur point??

 

Kerry went to war, committed war crimes, faked medals, got out early, then came home and aided the enemy.

 

Bush served, was never sent to a war theatre, and got out.

 

What's your point?

[Bug]

I don't know what you're talking about either... Didn't Kissinger "negotiate with the commies in Paris"? Or is that OK because he had no intentions of actually coming to a peace agreement?

 

Of course you don't know what I'm talking about. You avoid anything that shows Kerry's true colors. Kerry traveled to Paris to negotiate with the commies twice. That's illegal.

 

It was Kissinger's job.

Was it illegal for Ronald Reagan to deal with Iran when JImmy Carter was President?

[Fat_Teddy]

I don't know what you're talking about either... Didn't Kissinger "negotiate with the commies in Paris"? Or is that OK because he had no intentions of actually coming to a peace agreement?

 

Of course you don't know what I'm talking about. You avoid anything that shows Kerry's true colors. Kerry traveled to Paris to negotiate with the commies twice. That's illegal.

 

It was Kissinger's job.

Was it illegal for Ronald Reagan to deal with Iran when JImmy Carter was President?

 

Ronald Reagan isn't running for President again. Kerry is.

 

Did you know every single one of Kerry's Vietnam COs signed a letter declaring him unfit to be Commander in Chief? The only one that didn't sign is dead.

 

His son did, though.

 

Swift Boat Veterans Against Kerry.

[willstrickland]

You know what's odd about those "Swift Boat Veterans Against Kerry" ?

 

Not one of them actually served WITH him. I saw a former CO quoted, and the officer who took command of his boat after Kerry returned to the US. I've not heard any of the men actually served under him, on his crew say anything detrimental about his service.

 

It's easy to criticize when your in the rear with the gear. Show me one of his own men criticizing him and I'll put some stock in it.

 

I'm voting Libertarian.

[Skeezix]

FT, you're really coming up short in the logical argument department. As soon as you lose on one point, you jump to another weak effort. Your comparison of Kerry and Bush's war service (or lack thereof) especially sounds like spin of the desperate sort. As to your last gasp --so what? There's vets that lean left and support Kerry and there's vets, like SBVAK, that lean right and criticize Kerry. And make up your mind, sometimes you criticize others for unsupported rejoinders, then you let fly with your own:

HEH, nice try, rest stop boy. I know it, and you know it.

Is that the best you can do? Weak.

[slothrop]

Certainly there was something wrong with it. The administration was in Paris at the same time trying to negotiate. You don't think the VietCong knew American policy is heavily influenced by American sentiment? You don't think having people traveling to meet with the enemy emboldened them? You don't think saying the US is "murdering 200,000 Vietnamese a year" helps their cause?

 

He did a similar thing in Nicaragua 20 years later. It's a habit with him.

 

Shouldn't American policy be heavily influenced by public sentiment?

 

I think whatever encouragement given the North Vietnamese by war protesters pales in comparison to the encouragement they got from successfully interdicting our operations in Vietnam despite our massive firepower advantage, the support of a huge rebel force operating throughout Indochina, and the political and material support of big bad China to the north. Without the fact that we were losing the war and conducting it with increasing desperation and deception of the public by the government, the war protests at home wouldn't have been much of an issue.

 

It doesn't matter to me if Kerry's words emboldened the enemy. We shouldn't have been fighting in Vietnam in the first place. "Winning" the war in the sense of killing all the bad guys and replacing Communism with a puppet government was just not worth the cost.

 

I'm sure we differ in opinion on this matter, but note that the scourge of Communism did not engulf Asia and send the red hordes knocking at our doorstep as a result of Vietnam.

[icegirl]

You know what's odd about those "Swift Boat Veterans Against Kerry" ?

 

Not one of them actually served WITH him. I saw a former CO quoted, and the officer who took command of his boat after Kerry returned to the US. I've not heard any of the men actually served under him, on his crew say anything detrimental about his service.

 

It's easy to criticize when your in the rear with the gear. Show me one of his own men criticizing him and I'll put some stock in it.

 

I'm voting Libertarian.

 

Uh, the way I read it,

 

"We have 19 of 23 officers who served with [Kerry]. We have every commanding officer he ever had in Vietnam. They all signed a letter that says he is unfit to be commander-in-chief," O'Neill said.

 

how about this one: (from the press conference remarks)

 

My name is Steve Gardner. I served from ’66 to ’67 and from ’68 to ’69. The last tour was An Thoi and Cat Lo. I served for over 2 ½ months with John Kerry. I was the third class gunner’s mate, within five feet of John Kerry at all times. While I was not on the 94 boat, the boat where he put in for his purple hearts, I did watch his indecisiveness put his boat and crew in jeopardy time after time. His is inability to manage a six man crew properly; I do not believe Kerry is qualified to be our commander-in-chief. I left the Navy, lived in Clover, South Carolina and managed boat dealerships. I’m an ordinary guy with no political agenda and no party affiliation.

[willstrickland]

I stand corrected.

 

Still voting Libertarian.

[olyclimber]

I’m an ordinary guy with no political agenda and no party affiliation.

 

Actually, that doesn't sound very "ordinary" to me, and I'm a completely objective person.

[mtn_mouse]

[quote

What's your point?

 

My point?

I know Ted, and you're no Ted.

[Stonehead]

 

President to receive Purple Chin award

 

 

President Bush has been nominated for a Purple Chin award for being injured in the line of duty during his May 22 mountain bike tumble. The commander-in-chief reportedly was thinking about ways to fix his bone-headed war without admitting any mistakes when he hit a loose patch of dirt.

 

Critics dismissed it as a silly attempt to beef up his pathetic military record, first as a flighty National Guard pilot and now as a bumbling war boss foolish enough to don a flightsuit and pose with a bogus "Mission Accomplished" banner.

 

Bush, who nearly made the ultimate sacrifice after choking on a pretzel in January 2002, also fell off a hi-tech Segway scooter in June 2003, and dropped his pooch Barney on its head last September.

 

Media analysts differ on what the president might do for his next zany stunt. One suggested he parachute into a U.S. military compound in Iraq carrying a fake turkey for the troops. Another said he should accidentally shoot himself in the foot at an NRA fundraiser to divert attention from his malfeasant handling of the war.

 

--see story (by John Breneman) about halfway down the webpage

[olyclimber]

didn't you used to have a dancing banana for an avatar? i liked that better.

[Fat_Teddy]

At least the war criminal took the week off.

[Double_E]

didn't you used to have a dancing banana for an avatar? i liked that better.

no kidding... the psychotic bannana.

that thing never ceased to crack me up

[Stonehead]

It's a takeoff of the 'terror alert banana' ( http://www.victorisdead.com/luna/comments.php?id=200 ). The 'terror alert banana' changes color according to the DHS threat level.

 

BTW, if the following story has any truth to it, then perhaps it would hobble a Kerry Presidency when he is investigated ( Kerry Took Cash From Chinese Military Intelligence ) or maybe it's just a plant.