thinnest/lightest half-ropes?

[Matt_Anderson]

I need to pick up some new half-ropes (the kind that you clip independently and are rated for falls on a single line, not the other kind). Who makes the lightest ones (per meter or whatever)? Who makes the skinniest?

 

Anybody got ones that they particularly dig? By nature, I'm cheap, but if I was really sold, I'd spend extra money for a better mousetrap.

 

I'll most likely be looking for 60 meter lines - Although I love linking pitches, 70 meter ones just seem to freaking heavy to lug up long approaches.

[mattp]

They are not thinnest, lightest or cheap, but I like the Edelweiss Stratos. They've got a filament in them that allows them to be rated to hold a fall over an edge, and I believe they are the only 9's that are rated this way. They are also slightly stiffer than most other 9's and I think they tangle a little less than a more flexible rope. Depending on terrain, I sometimes lead on a single one.

[Stephen_Ramsey]

Beal's Ice Line (8.1mm) seems pretty lightweight and skinny. I've heard some people use it both as a double and a twin.

You might not want to top-rope on them... I decked once (thankfully into deep snow) while top-roping on a single strand of 8.1mm Beal rope, due to longer-than-anticipated rope stretch.

 

The Ice Line is probably what I will buy, when I upgrade from my 8.5mm Mammut half ropes this winter.

 

http://www.bealplanet.com/produits/anglais/produit2.html

Edited May 25, 2004 by Stephen_Ramsey

[mattp]

How do the Beal ropes hold up for wear? I have only owned one Beal, and it had a slightly loose and very unprotective sheath on it - I believe I retired it faster than any other rope I have ever had because it fuzzed out right away, and looked literally thrashed after about 25 days of use! It was also extremely soft, and seemed to tangle around every bush or flake it came close to.

[John Frieh]

Beal ropes are the goods. Don't take my word for it though: compare number of falls, elongation, impact force, and g/meter with anybody else out there. Their waterproof coat isn't the best (bluewaters is amazing), but in the alpine your biggest concern is generally impact force (at least mine is). I have a pair of ice line 70's.

[Dr_Crash]

Beal's Ice Line (8.1mm) seems pretty lightweight and skinny. Rated for use as both a twin rope and as a half rope system.

 

Where does it says it's rated as a twin? It is a half rope, with "The lightness and free flow of a twin rope" (Beal's words) but the latter is just marketing, not an encouragement to use them as twins.

 

drC

[Stephen_Ramsey]

Hi Matt,

 

I don't know, since I only used the Ice Line rope the one time on top-rope. I hope to buy it and use it for alpine and waterfall ice, for which (I hope) the wear-and-tear might not be as severe as for alpine rock climbing. But durability is still a concern... I'd sure like my ropes to last for more than 25 days!

 

As for tangling, I suppose one should expect this from skinny ropes. I guess that's another reason why super-skinny cord isn't a great choice for an "all-around" mountaineering rope...

 

Cheers,

Steve

[Stephen_Ramsey]

Dr. Crash,

 

Sorry, I was repeating a factoid heard on CC.com (and should have stated it as such). I heard something anecdotally about the Ice Line being usable as a twin, but you're right, there's nothing on Beal's web site indicating that the rope was tested for twin rope use.

 

I've edited my post accordingly.

 

Caveat emptor!

 

Cheers,

Steve

Edited May 25, 2004 by Stephen_Ramsey

[Matt_Anderson]

never mind . . .

Edited May 25, 2004 by Matt_Anderson

[RuMR]

Dr. Crash,

 

Sorry, I was repeating a factoid heard on CC.com (and should have stated it as such). I heard something anecdotally about the Ice Line being usable as a twin, but you're right, there's nothing on Beal's web site indicating that the rope was tested for twin rope use.

 

I've edited my post accordingly.

 

Caveat emptor!

 

Cheers,

Steve

 

The full quote is:

 

BEAL PRESENTS THE VERY LIGHTEST DOUBLE ROPE. ITS EXTREMELY LOW IMPACT FORCE IS EXCELLENT NEWS FOR LESS-THAN-PERFECT BELAY POINTS IN ICE AND ON MIXED ROUTES. A TRUMP CARD THAT NO ALPINIST CAN IGNORE.

 

STRONG POINTS:

The lightness and free flow of a twin rope in addition to the advantages of a Double rope

 

The rope is certified as both a twin and a double...

[thelawgoddess]

i use the roca migu (8.1). the roca website says they are 43g/m. the beal ice line is 42g/m. the mammut phoenix is even lighter - 41g/m. but who can afford mammut ropes?

[John Frieh]

Mammut ropes may be lighter, but they have a higher impact force. I think of all the disciplines; alpine (and aid for that matter) is thee one that one should consider impact forces the most... unless you are absolutely sure you aren't going to fall or climb routes that have ample bomber gear placements.

[RuMR]

how's bout someone w/ a prodeal? You know, like an employee of a climbing shop?????

[thelawgoddess]

Mammut ropes may be lighter, but they have a higher impact force. I think of all the disciplines; alpine (and aid for that matter) is thee one that one should consider impact forces the most... unless you are absolutely sure you aren't going to fall or climb routes that have ample bomber gear placements.

 

seems like something that should be more of a concern in a single rope system ... not that i'm that concerned. i use my halfs for ice climbing ... here falling is not an option anyway, right?

[Dr_Crash]

The full quote is:

 

BEAL PRESENTS THE VERY LIGHTEST DOUBLE ROPE. ITS EXTREMELY LOW IMPACT FORCE IS EXCELLENT NEWS FOR LESS-THAN-PERFECT BELAY POINTS IN ICE AND ON MIXED ROUTES. A TRUMP CARD THAT NO ALPINIST CAN IGNORE.

 

STRONG POINTS:

The lightness and free flow of a twin rope in addition to the advantages of a Double rope

 

The rope is certified as both a twin and a double...

 

OK, I must be dense. I still don't see any reference to the certification here (since the last sentence is yours, not Beal's). It is listed only as a half rope (double rope), *not* as a twin, by Beal. Again, read the first sentence... "Beal presents the very lightest DOUBLE ROPE." Not twin. They just say that it is as light and supple as a twin, not that it is a twin. But you may have information re: the certification that I can't see on that Web site. Are you one of these shop employees you're referring to?

 

drC

[Lambone]

I agree with mattp's posts above.

 

The Beal lines are light, but wear quickly. Better for ice climbing then alpine rock. They are half ropes, not twin ropes.

 

There are some ropes out now being marketed as both half and twin ropes. Don't know much about them.

 

The Stratos are the bomb. I feel confident climbing with a single line on easier terrain like the N. Ridge of Stuart. Very durable and resistant to wear, nice stiff hand, not tangly.

 

I also use the Roca ropes that lawgoddess mentions. I wen't out on a limb and bought them from Jim at PMS without knowing anything about them. They have been great so far, like the Beal only better. I primarily use them for Ice though, since ice is is a bit less harsh on them.

[RuMR]

The full quote is:

 

BEAL PRESENTS THE VERY LIGHTEST DOUBLE ROPE. ITS EXTREMELY LOW IMPACT FORCE IS EXCELLENT NEWS FOR LESS-THAN-PERFECT BELAY POINTS IN ICE AND ON MIXED ROUTES. A TRUMP CARD THAT NO ALPINIST CAN IGNORE.

 

STRONG POINTS:

The lightness and free flow of a twin rope in addition to the advantages of a Double rope

 

The rope is certified as both a twin and a double...

 

OK, I must be dense. I still don't see any reference to the certification here (since the last sentence is yours, not Beal's). It is listed only as a half rope (double rope), *not* as a twin, by Beal. Again, read the first sentence... "Beal presents the very lightest DOUBLE ROPE." Not twin. They just say that it is as light and supple as a twin, not that it is a twin. But you may have information re: the certification that I can't see on that Web site. Are you one of these shop employees you're referring to?

 

drC

 

drC,

 

Go to the website...look at the symbol showing the certification...it is 1/2 not the infinity symbol...the only twin they make is their 7.something or other called the icetwin, i think...

 

The ice line is certified as a DOUBLE rope... ...a DOUBLE rope can be clipped alternatively if desired, for DOUBLE rope technique as well as together in TWIN technique

[John Frieh]

From http://www.aspiring.co.nz/standard.htm

 

All climbing ropes are dynamic ropes made to one of two standards, either the CE standard EN 892, or the UIAA standard. (UIAA is the International Federation of Mountaineering Associations). There is very little difference between the two standards, the CE standard having been based on the UIAA standard, which was developed during the 1960s.

The success of the UIAA standard is demonstrated by the fact that no certified climbing rope has ever broken, except by being loaded over a sharp edge of rock. The UIAA is considering requirements for cutting resistance of ropes, so that they would incorporate more resistance to this type of failure.

The most important requirement of the standard is the impact force requirement, under which the impact loads under standardized drop tests with a fall factor of about 1.8 must not exceed 12 kN for single ropes and twin ropes using an 80 kg load, and 8 kN for half ropes using a 55 kg load.

 

The number of standard falls that a rope sustains without breaking must be at least five for single and half ropes, and 12 for twin ropes. There are also requirements for sheath slippage, sheath content, knot flexibility, and elongation under an 80 kg load.

 

Dr. C: Basically any company that makes a rope system involving 2 ropes (twin or double) that can pass both the half and twin tests can sell/market them as both, like Beal did last year with the ice line. I emailed them for the twin drop test stats (not found on the site); when I get them I will post.

 

The take home message is you need to decide the type of climbing you will be employing this rope system for (ice only or alpine rock and ice), which will dictate your rope diameter. Once you know this, pick based on 1st) impact force, 2nd) g/meter, and 3rd) number of falls. If you are unsure about this, post more q’s. Hope this helps!

[Matt_Anderson]

probably the most accurate way to characterize the beal rope is that is rated as a half rope, not as a twin, but isn't the rating for the half ropes more stringent? Is there anything in the testing of the twins that isn't included in the testing of the halfs?

[John Frieh]

The beal is certified as both a twin and a half rope. That means:

 

It passed the half rope drop test which involves dropping a 55kg weight on ONE strand in a fall simulating a fall factor of 1.8.

 

It also passed the twin rope drop test which involves dropping a 80kg weight on TWO strands (both) in a fall simulating a fall factor of 1.8.

 

The UIAA specifies a maximum impact force of 2540 pounds for single ropes and 1760 pounds for double ropes. To pass each test, the rope (half) or ropes (twin) did not exceed 2540 lbs (twins) or 1760 lbs (double).

[Dustin_B]

I think it is quite simple: if a rope is rated as half (can hold a fall on one strand), then isn't it also rated as double (can hold a fall on two strand) by default??? Obviously not visa versa though.

 

I think that mammut (or beal or whatever company we are talking about) said that it is rated as a half with the feel and handling of a twin. Meaning it has the advantages of both and because it is rated as a half, it is therefore also rated as a twin and like was stated, can be sold to both markets.

[John Frieh]

For all you physics nerds this might clear things up a little more (its a PDF).

[John Frieh]

No. It must pass both test separately. Look at the link.

[Dru]

dental floss is very thin and light. personally i find that 2mm accessory cord gives better confidence though.

[Rodchester]

Wow, I am rather amazed at some of the statements here.

 

The question seems to be: Does Beal make a rope that is "certified" as both a double/half rope and a twin rope.

Beal Half and Twin Ropes

 

Beal says about its 8.1 Ice Line:

 

BEAL PRESENTS THE VERY LIGHTEST DOUBLE ROPE. ITS EXTREMELY LOW IMPACT FORCE IS EXCELLENT NEWS FOR LESS-THAN-PERFECT BELAY POINTS IN ICE AND ON MIXED ROUTES. A TRUMP CARD THAT NO ALPINIST CAN IGNORE.

 

STRONG POINTS:

The lightness and free flow of a twin rope in addition to the advantages of a Double rope.

 

 

Beal goes on to say:

 

PERFORMANCES

• Double rope - UIAA - CE -------

• Number of bobbins --------------32

• Weight per metre ---------------42 g

• Impact force (with 55 kg)

BEAL Guaranty ------------------ 4,9 kN

• Number of falls factor 1,77

(55 kg) BEAL Guaranty ----------8

• Sheath slippage --------------0 mm

• Extension during the first fall ---37 %

• Static elongation ----------------12%

 

Now I don't claim to be a professional rock jock, I'm no engineer, but I am a climber and an attorney that does a good bit of products liability cases.

 

From climbers viewpoint: Some here are bickering about the rope and whether it has past drop tests. As a climber, I think it is pretty clear that Beal lists this as a half/double rope. Further, its web page lists that it has passed certification as a double/half rope (Double rope - UIAA - CE). I do not see anywhere on the Beal page where it states that this rope has also passed drop tests as a twin. Which as we all know means that you clip each rope into seperate gear, or alternately. Am I missing something here. If so, please correct me.

 

Additionally, don't the drop tests speak to the rope strength, and not the impact on the gear (at least not in a pass/fail sense)? Know I know it lists the impact force (Impact force (with 55 kg) - 4.9 k.N), but I think it is safe to assume that this is in testing as a half/double rope, not as a twin. (Why? Because that's how they listed it). If they had tested and certified it as both, then they would list the impact force for each test, half/double and twin. It doesn't.

 

Is there actually a pass or fail number in impact force? If so what is it? Anyone?

 

Beal's strong points say that you get "the lightness and free flow of a twin rope" ... but I bet if you clip the two on the same gear, you'll get the impact force of two, count em two half/double ropes.

 

 

As a climber, I'll just say:

 

As an attroney: Well I'll keep this real short. There is no way in hell that the wording/text on the Beal website would pass as warranty for purpose or use as a twin rope.

 

No offnse meant, but I have not seen anything that indicates that this rope is tested and warrantied as both a twin and double rope.

 

If you have something from Beal that says this is BOTH a trwin and a half rope, cite to the source and supply.

Edited May 26, 2004 by Rodchester