chucK Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Military says it might return some former soldiers to duty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assmonkey Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 That sucks. Glad my IRR time is over. Course, not much need for sailors in Afghanistan or Iraq. Â - a s s m * n k e y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 they gots some famous rivers in iraq that get patrolled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.radon Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Draft? I you must not know the first thing about military service. When your enlistment is up you are still obligated to the Ready Reserve for a period of time. It's know up front when you sign the enlistment papers. It has to date never been used. However, its not even close to a DRAFT! That's like saying the when the National Guard is called up a DRAFT. There is no way a draft would work, the military doesn't want a draft either. I had my doubts about the war. Bad news all day long. A few weeks ago I visited my son's old babysitter. She has two daughters who sevral years ago baby sat my kid after hours when I went out on dates and stuff. They both enlisted in the Army. One was part of the assault. She was stationed in Tikrit (sp?). Anyway, she felt so strongly about the good she was doing over there, she extended her deployment and re-enlisted. Her sister, who is still over there also felt strongly about the good of the mission and reenlisted. Both are willing to do another tour. Their mom was showing me photo after photo her daughter's e-mailed her. These pictures were awesome. I guess feel good pictures don't sell newspapers or ferment the kinda violence the media wants to report on. Also, looking at the pictures of that sandstorm the toops had to deal with durring the assault, wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Radon, I believe the point is that there isn't much else the US government can do to get people (more people) to send over...beside drafting recruits. They are now at the point of calling up people that they can based on their contract. You mention that the clause has never been used before. Is there any other way to get more soldiers (other than having a bunch more people volunteer)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted May 20, 2004 Author Share Posted May 20, 2004 It has to date never been used. However, its not even close to a DRAFT! emphasis added  Using the IRR would be calling up people who don't want to serve (anymore). Not all, but some. I think that's close to a draft. And yes, I think that suiting up the reserves to go to actual combat is sorta like a draft, but it's not as close to a draft as this thing.  I didn't say it was a draft. I just said it's close. It also indicates that they are seriously hurting for manpower, so "close" in my sentence could also mean "close" as in the draft is the next step.  And give me a break, your sisters reenlisted. They are not applicable to a discussion about IRR, except in a "rah rah, this war is great" kind of tangential way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assmonkey Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 I think it is conventional wisdom that if Shrub is re-elected, one of the first projects of the second term administration will be to re-activate the draft. Â http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20040607&s=pollitt http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/Stories/0,1413,206~11851~2158802,00.html http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2003/11/03/draft/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted May 20, 2004 Author Share Posted May 20, 2004 There is no way a draft would work, the military doesn't want a draft either. Â And why is that? I'm curious. Â Is it because, though a bunch of knuckleheads support this stupid war, that they would rise up and literally revolt if they or their children had to go do the dirty work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted May 20, 2004 Author Share Posted May 20, 2004 Assmonkey what you say may be true, but I'm not so sure that electing Kerry would preclude a draft either. In fact, it might be more likely if he's elected. They need the manpower according to the generals. Kerry can do the dirty deed and blame it almost solely on Bush and his fucked up deeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assmonkey Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 There is no way a draft would work, the military doesn't want a draft either. Â And why is that? I'm curious. Â Is it because, though a bunch of knuckleheads support this stupid war, that they would rise up and literally revolt if they or their children had to go do the dirty work? Â The US military is very proud of the high standards their current staff meets. They believe that this high level of standards is due to the fact that the current military is all-volunteer. The people who enlist are people who want to be there. They believe that the draft will force into the military a group of soldiers who do not want to be there and will lower the high standard that is in place in the military. In the past two decades, military recruitment has been relatively more competetive than in the past, and not everyone who applies gets in (maybe this has already changed, I don't know). Â In defence of that position, one could point out the recent actions of the reservists at Abu Ghraibe. Â - a s s m * n k e y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assmonkey Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Assmonkey what you say may be true, but I'm not so sure that electing Kerry would preclude a draft either. In fact, it might be more likely if he's elected. They need the manpower according to the generals. Kerry can do the dirty deed and blame it almost solely on Bush and his fucked up deeds. Â I agree. Both recent draft bills in the House and Senate were sponsored by Demoncrats, and the gentleman who sponsored the one in the house is on Kerry short list for VP. Â - a s s m * n k e y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assmonkey Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 For more info, you can Google this shiznit: Â HR 163 (Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y.; Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Washington) Â S 89 (Fritz Hollings, D-S.C.) Â "These House and Senate bills would not only reinstate the draft for males between the ages of 18-26, but would add women, as well." Â - a s s m * n k e y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.radon Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 The reason the militray doesn't want a draft is that it doesn't get motivated people into the service. They weren't my sisters. Re-read my post. They were two sisters, daughter's of my old day care provider. I knew them when they were only 10 or so. Weird to hear of them in the Army. I was just surprised they had a very positive experiance in Iraq. Enough so the re-enlist. Will be interesting to see how this whole affair looks in 20 years. Also, end note. Many people, I was one of them, want nothing to do with the military well before thier intial enlistment is up. So you are right, many don't want to serve but hey that is their signiture on the enlistment papers. They had a choice to sign or not to sign. All I have to say is tough luck..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markinore Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 I am old enough to have been eligible for the draft during Vietnam. I was active in movements against the war and the draft. Sometimes when I was asked what I thought I was accomplishing, I said "At least I may prevent my sons from having to worry about being drafted." Â Now that people are talking about the potential for a draft, I have to recognize that my sons, 16 and 18 years old, are definitely at risk. As determined as I was 30 years ago to prevent my hypothetical children from being sent to a stupid war, I am even more determined now to prevent my living, breathing, actual boys from getting their asses shot off for the glory of Bush, Cheney, et al. I am sure I am not alone. Â At the height of the draft resistance movement in Vietnam, as many as 90% of those called up by some draft boards (mostly in New York)didn't show. If there is any attempt to try a draft again, I suspect we can make that percentage just as high over even more of the country. Â Back in the '60s and '70s, a lot of us who fought the war were impassioned but naive, disorganized, and inconsistent. Now, we might be older and grayer, but we just may be a lot more dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.radon Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Back in the '60s and '70s, a lot of us who fought the war were impassioned but naive, disorganized, and inconsistent. Now, we might be older and grayer, but we just may be a lot more dangerous. Â Ha,,,, hope your a gun nut like me too!!!! If not I have a few AK-47's I can sell you for your fight. The chance of you getting drafted is pretty low. Unless of corse we get a Democrate in office. I'd like to see your face when old junior says dad I'm going into the Army.. :-) BTW can you help me plant flags on Veteran graves this Memorial weekend or will you be too busy climbing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormfighter6 Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 As an X officer stationed at Ft Lewis I still have a couple years left on my IRR time. I would not happy if I was called back to active duty. Actually I wuold be Mad as Hell. But I under stood that that was the risk I took and I have no right to whine or complain about it. I am a small busisness owner now and would lose my busisness and would have to let my 2 employees go. If I was able to stay here I cold probaly continue to run my busisness but it would not be easy. If I was called up I would go do my duty to the best of my ability. Â Yes the IRR has been called up before in Desert Storm I a whole bunch were call up from the IRR and the IMA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.radon Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 I did not know people were called up. I guess ABC news had incorrect facts, I heard this off one of their news reports about a week ago. I think I heard the same thing on NPR. I got out just before the Gulf War I and didn't get a notice. But then again, I don't think the Navy was short sub sailors.... :-) I would be pissed too, My point is I would have served, kept the griping to myself and others while smartly saluting and saying "Yes Sir". I'm proud of what I did and would do it over again given the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Assmonkey what you say may be true, but I'm not so sure that electing Kerry would preclude a draft either. In fact, it might be more likely if he's elected. They need the manpower according to the generals. Kerry can do the dirty deed and blame it almost solely on Bush and his fucked up deeds.  No Doubt  Don't we have enough troops, it's just that they are stationed here in case we are invaded by Cuba or some one else in the axis of evil... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.radon Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 NPR had a neat bit following an Army recruiter around. They reported the military has no problems filling manpower even with the current events. They can even be picky about who they let in and who they reject. The peaceniks are just unwilling to admit that America still instills patriotic values into a majority of its populace, people willing to fight and die protect the their right to protest against them. Makes me feel proud about today's youth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 The peaceniks are just unwilling to admit that America still instills patriotic values into a majority of its populace  Because peace is unpatriotic, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 The peaceniks are just unwilling to admit that America still instills patriotic values into a majority of its populace  Because peace is unpatriotic, right?  Peace was unpatriotic in 1775... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Well hell, we did we ever change from the late 1700's? Maybe we should go back to pre-industrial revolution technology. Slavery was pretty fun too! Maybe we should put George Washington in charge of the Iraq situation, see what he does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Radon, I heard that NPR story. I took away a little diffe rent meaning. What I heard those kids say was "I looked for work and didn't even get a nibble. I put resumes out there everywhere." another was "There's nothing here, nothing for someone coming up here(meaning growing up there, they were rural Texan I believe) to do". Another was 24 and basically said he was tired of working bullshit no future jobs like managing a grocery stocking crew or putting together furniture. One kid was looking for adventure and money for college. Â The message I got was that these alot of these kids were signing up because there was no employment prospects for them and the military was the only sure-fire option for good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Well hell, we did we ever change from the late 1700's? Maybe we should go back to pre-industrial revolution technology. Slavery was pretty fun too! Maybe we should put George Washington in charge of the Iraq situation, see what he does? Â 1941 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 I came away with a similar interpretation as Will. Furthermore, I also got the feeling that the military was not as choosy as the above suggests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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