screws

[letsroll]

I am looking into getting some ice screws. I was leaning to the Ushba Ultimate Ice screw the guy on cascadeclimber.com does not like them. he did not say why, so is there any reason they are not as bad as steel? The reason I was looking at the tit was the reduced weight. The other screw I was looking at was the BD turbo express ice screw. Looking for protection on 45 deg glacier, like north face of Shucksan (seems people use them later in the season). How many do you guys carry and what length?

 

Thanks

[layton]

go for the ushba if it's just for easy glacier ice routes. There are even cheaper ones available (titanium). They have red caps. I don't know the name.

BD express are the way to go on steep ice. Reason? They go in much easier.

[fear]

If you're going to really NEED the screws and be placing them from less than secure stances don't dick around with cheap screws. Go BD Express or Grivel 360's. If your stances are always secure and you'll usually have two hands to work with the Ti ones are ok. On bulletproof ice though you'll need to chop a little starter hole and swear a lot with the Ti ones. Don't use the cheap Ti ones (red cap) in the "downward pointing" config everyone raves about now. Their threads are way to small for much pullout strength. Point them up, away from the impact.

 

 

-Fear

[catbirdseat]

The Ushba screws are all made of titanium. They have a modern large thread design, but it is said do not place as easily as chrom-moly screws, especally the new BD Turbo.

 

The cheap titanium screws for $12 are made by Irbis. This screw weighs half of what a similar length steel screw weighs.

[sobo]

...The cheap titanium screws for $12 are made by Irbis. This screw weighs half of what a similar length steel screw weighs.

 

And has about one-third the thread depth. As mentioned, don't point them for downward-angled placements. I use Irbuses (the cheap ones) just for rappel leavers on ice climbs, if I can't get anything more solid, like an Abolakov, tree, or sumpin.

[OlympicMtnBoy]

Alvo Titanium also makes cheap Ti screws that I like way better than the Irbis ones, also with normal size threads. Sometimes you can find em on ebay at the UralAlp store for $10-20. I use em on easy ice, and I'd agree with the BDs or Grivels for steep hard stuff. The Ti screws sure are nicer to throw a couple of on your rack when you're not sure if you'll hit some ice in that mostly snow route though.

[catbirdseat]

Alvo is the manufacturer for which Ushba is the exclusive distributor.

[ken4ord]

So far all of the ti screws that I have ever used are not worth the weight savings and not worth the money savings. Do yourelf a favor and get yourself a really nice ice screw that you can trust and one that your partner won't hate you for owning. They are worht the money. My personal faves are the BD, they're bomber and place easy.

[Don_Serl]

everyone has their own opinions. i try to base mine on actual personal experience rather than bias, but you're free to disagree with my conclusions. and all "conclusions" are the result of balancing compromises, so be aware that my "priorities" might differ from yours.

 

having said that, my most profound impression within the past few years re: ice climbing is that the folks at black diamond have taught us all an important lesson - the ease of placement of an icescrew is a key element in climbing success. and they taught us this by producing screws that stood above the rest. the tapered bore in the turbo express cuts better than any other screw, and the flip-out handle greatly speeds rotation.

 

in my experience, only one other screw approaches (maybe exceeds) BD in ease of placement: the DMM revolution. the bore is incredibly finely finished, so friction is extremely low. and while the hanger lacks a handle, it's drop forged and can be rotated very smoothly and easily. they're not that easily available, however.

 

the charlet 360º is a nice screw, but not quite in the same class - the hanger/crank design is too funky, and the screws are too hard to rack. plus the bore is not as sophisticated, so there is more rotational friction.

 

the titanium screws are light, but from an "earlier age" in terms of placement ability. yes, you can save 25gm to 40gm per screw, but is that worth fighting for every placement? one ounce per screw versus many minutes and calories per placement? pre-turbo, i carried titanium - i no longer do.

 

the maximum you need on an alpine ice face ought to be 6 screws: 2 for the belay, 2 runners, and two more for the top belay. or, if you want to "make time" but aren't comfortable soloing, carry 6 (or better, 8) screws and have the leader place one every half-ropelength, then move together. that way u always have 2 screws between you and the ground, and the terrain passes by pretty fast - 3 1/2 ropelengths till you place the last 2 screws and belay to swap ends.

 

as for the N face of Shuksan specifically, except in exceptionally icy conditions this is "solo" terrain for most "experienced" climbers - BUT make your own decisions! don't let what others do influence what YOU feel comfortable soloing or belaying - you seem to be reasonably neophyte, so judge for yourself, be conservative, and stay alive!

[Alpinfox]

Thanks for that post Don!

 

I might have to check those DMM screws out. Only $40 at Mtn Tools <--- Click

 

I find the little handle dealie on BD screws pretty useless while PLACING the screw, especially at the beginning, but it sure speeds up the REMOVAL of the screw. I am pretty much a newbie/gumby ice climber, so am I missing something?

 

I placed one of those Grivel 360 screws once and you can get a nice grip on the head of it and the big handle was actually effective while PLACING the screw. I agree they are funky to rack/carry though.

 

 

RE: N.Face of Shuksan - Unless you climb in pretty late in the season, you probably won't see a lot of ice. I've only climbed it once (mid-may) and there wasn't anywhere to place a screw. We took a few pickets and they would have worked for pro if we had placed any.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2004 by Alpinfox

[Dru]

i really like the irbis screws for summer glacial travel and other "the screws stay in the pack 99% of the time" pursuits. if you probably aren't going to use it anyway you might as well take the lightest one avalable.

 

also when soloing alpine ice in the late summer and fall it's nice to have one or two lightweight screws on your harness in case you have to stop unexpectedly ie. one of your crampons falls off or you get hit by a rock. trying to fix crampon or apply a band-aid to a bleeding gash on your arm while you are solo and balanced on one pair of front points on a 50 degree ice slope can be kinda challenging.

[OlympicMtnBoy]

Alvo is the manufacturer for which Ushba is the exclusive distributor.

 

Almost, Ushba is the US distributor, and they don't distribute everything that Alvo makes. You can find some more of their gear at Uralsport on ebay, although I just checked and they don't have the nice cheap screws anymore, although they do have several models other than the USHBA Ultimate Uralsport Ebay Store. Just to say, not all the $12 screws are Irbis. There are (or were) 4 or 5 Russian manufacturers of ice screws (ti and steel) and now those screws show up randomly. Sorry to go off topic.

[obsydian]

I bought one of the light tt ones from pro mountain. 141 grams for 19cm, it is lighter, but is harder to get in, seems to be "sticky", have to take the axe and use to turn in, the BD express go in like a flash, 200 grams for same length, they are worth the extra weight if you are on steep terrain and need to place a screw fast. If you just need a screw once in awhile, have a good stance and can take the time, then the lighter one will do.

[letsroll]

THanks for the help, with that said no Ti for me only DB. Ya I am only a 2 year old (in climbing years) but with that said just trying to get the right gear and the right amount the first time. I am at the point where I need gear to progress in my climbing, steeper and deeper the only way to go. North face I am only taking two pickets and 8 mil rope. I am heading to Shuksan june12-13.

[jaee]

Another common newbie mistake is buying too many long screws. Yep, you need a couple 19 or 22 cms, but you'll end up using more short screws for alpine climbs, especially after you stub a $60 screw. Make sure you get a 13 and/or a 16 once you think you're going to actually use some screws.

[letsroll]

THe note about sizes is helpfull. I forgot to ask that and you beat me to it . I think I will pick up 2x 19cm, 2x13cm, and 2x10cm. I am thinking this will give me a good range. Would pick up a couple more but the $$, damn this sport can get expensive. Check out backcountrygear.com , they have DB express on sale for $42.

Edited May 22, 2004 by letsroll

[thelawgoddess]

BD express are the way to go on steep ice. Reason? They go in much easier.

 

imho grivel 360's go in even easier and in much tighter/stranger spots. i think all ice screws rack weird so i don't care that they don't rack as "nicely" as some others. i have the panpipe for when i think that's going to be an issue. how many i carry depends on the route. probably not the best bet for the serious gram-counter but when time's of the essence ... .

[Ade]

I'd stay away from the 10cm screws if I were you.

 

For alpine climbing you'll have to clear of more surface crud as with a very short screw you'll need the whole thing in good ice. You'll save weight but make placements potentially more work. If you're climbing with six screws as Don suggests do you really want to run it out 20m on a 10cm screw or belay off two of them?

 

In water ice they're great if the ice is thin and solid, but that means you're on pretty technical ground.

 

Get some 16/17s, a couple of longer ones (I actually like these for garbage ice - gives you a bit more metal deeper where the ice might be better). The 13s are OK, but I usually take the 16s in the alpine unless I'm expecting thin ice.

 

With an BD Express screw the time taken to place them doesn't really depend that much on the length, you can spin them in really quickly once they're started.

[jaee]

I'd agree. Get 2x 13 & 2x 16. Skip the 10s unless you know you're going to have no other options. The 16s will provide more peace of mind.

[Stephen_Ramsey]

Letsroll,

 

Just another vote for getting 2x16s instead of 2x10s, unless really really thin ice is your thing.

 

The 16s are quite versatile. I also really like 19s for glacier ice.

[catbirdseat]

I'd agree. Get 2x 13 & 2x 16. Skip the 10s unless you know you're going to have no other options. The 16s will provide more piece of mind.

I'll give you a piece of my mind. The expression you seek is "peace of mind".

[Dru]

oo yeah. nothing like a 2 week late spelling flame for showing who's top dog of the newbies forum!