Twight and Boots

[Greg_W]

I'm no Fred Astair with crampons on.

 

But he's positively dreamy on the dance floor!

 

*swoon*

 

 

I can actually hold my own in a waltz or swing situation, thank you very much!

[specialed]

So, I was reading "Extreme Alpinism" the other night (mostly for the pictures, on account of the fact that I'm a gaper) and read Twight's thoughts on boots. He's a big advocate of plastics, which is cool, but he says to buy the shells a size small and then buy Alveolite liners and have them custom molded to your feet. Does anyone have experience with this practice? I see his logic, I'm just wondering how it has worked in practice.

 

Greg_W

 

I didn't read this whole thread so this might be redundant, but I had really good experience with the Intuition liners I bought at FF for my plastic boots in Alaska. They were super light and warm. I don't know if the shells were necessarily a half-size small, but that does make sense. However, most of the top hot shots in AK were wearing the new hybrid style boots though which I don't have experience with. But when I go back I'll just wear my plastics, b/c if it aint broken don't try and fix it.

[Figger_Eight]

My Arctis Expeditions are sized down with an Intuition Liner in them. The fit is much better for climbing in technical terrain, however it doesn't give the liner much room to expand at altitude (a small issue when I was up high...I just made sure to lace my boots super loose.) The deal with the Koflach boots is that they use a more flexible plastic around the ankle, which is great for walking around, but become a liability when frontpointing for a long time. My old Invernos were solid for ice climbing - the boot was more supportive and I could rest on the shell. Ice climbing in the Koflachs is still fine, but not quite as good. I'd still rather use my Supermountains or Nepal Extremes if its not butt ass cold. At least that's this crappy climber's 2 cents.

[John Frieh]

The deal with the Koflach boots is that they use a more flexible plastic around the ankle, which is great for walking around, but become a liability when frontpointing for a long time.

 

Good points. Remember: more flexible around the ankle = more rock climbing friendly

[Ryan]

I used my Koflach Actis Expes all winter long for ice climbing (everything from long, short, steep, moderate), and they worked well on the whole. Having warm and dry feet was well worth the loss in dexterity and, at times, precison. I also have a pair of Garmont Pinnacles that I use for shorter trips at lower elevations and for long summer backpacking trips- these boots are crampon compatible and work well for everything- ice, snow, and rock. I think that next year I will invest in a pair of Freneys (or something similar) and save my Koflachs for full on expedition climbing. I find it works well to have a few different boots and, as someone above said, use whatever is applicable in any given situation.

[Indy_jones]

Do the Intuition liners come standard with the Alphas?

No, they do not. I had a pair of Intuition liners fitted for Alphas, but found they were too bulky around the ankle, which I didn't like. I returned the Alphas, and used the liners in my ski boots.

 

I also found that "sizing down" didn't apply to Alphas, because they are already a very low volume boot compared to something like the Inverno.

 

In case anyone is interested, here are some gory details and pics from someone (not me) who has used Alphas with Intution lines.

good stuff

[Alex]

couple more thoughts:

 

"is the one plastic boot size smaller, custom liner beta dated?"

 

No, I've found this is still a great way to go! Leather boots do fairly well and climb great, but always not quite as well as one would hope in our wet climate here in PNW for multi day trips in winter. Drying them out once wet is impossible on a trip, not so with plastic boot liners.

 

"Scarpa Alpha yadda yadda yadda"

 

This boot does not fit many people. It is (obviously) much lower volume than a std plastic boot, and as such doesnt fit people with high arches well. But like they say, "if the shoe fits,..."

 

"Do alveolite liners compress faster than intuition liners?"

 

Yes. My Arctis liners were new and great (tight even) in Alaska in 1998. I noticed them getting compressed as early as 6 months to a year later (light use). I think you can expect about a season or two of service out of alveolite liners before you notice them changing significanty, but YMMV. My plastic boots are bathtubs now, no longer wearable except on the coldest days in the Cdn Rockies when I just cant get by in leather boots.

[Ade]

Other things worth noting:

 

The other thing you can do to make plastics climb better is to get a better set of footbeds for them. Either Superfeet or equivalent or a custom footbed if you can afford it. These will significantly reduce the amount of heel lift while climbing. I have invernos and intuition liners, the shells are slightly too big, but the footbeds and liners filled up some of the volume and got me a significantly better fit.

 

Sizing is really critical a friend of mine got a smaller shell size and with intuition liners he couldn't use the boots they were too tight. Some thermo liners expand when you cook them, some don't.

 

You can re-cook intuitions when they pack down to extend their life.

 

I only use them for AK etc. Winter in the cascades, Coast in summer etc I just use leathers because the climb so much better.

[Bronco]

Just go into the Alderwood REI and tell them you plan to do the Emperor face on Robson and are shopping for adequate mountaineering boots. They will get you exactly what you need. Green vest guys rock!

[icegirl]

The deal with the Koflach boots is that they use a more flexible plastic around the ankle, which is great for walking around, but become a liability when frontpointing for a long time. My old Invernos were solid for ice climbing - the boot was more supportive and I could rest on the shell. Ice climbing in the Koflachs is still fine, but not quite as good. I'd still rather use my Supermountains or Nepal Extremes if its not butt ass cold. At least that's this crappy climber's 2 cents.

 

I have had the same experience wtih Koflachs being ankle flexy, and prefering my SM's when it's not butt cold... So I guess I second 8's 2 cents... (does that now make it 4 cents?)

[Jedi]

I have the Alpha/Intuition combo. I went with the Alpha in the same size as I wear in a street shoe. This was recommended by the shop/fitter I bought them from. They have just enough romm for me to wiggle my toes a little. They are a little too snug across the top of my foot so I don't think I could use them on Denali but they climb damn well (once again, gear compensating for my lack of ability).

The shells have been horribly distorted to fit my Fred Flinstone ping pong paddle feet. The shells do not take too kindly to crampon points.

Also, the CM/P Sarkens are nice & light and climb as well as the Grivel G14's making for a lightweight package. Anyway, I am getting off topic.

 

The Intutuion's do get wet and do take a while to dry. I don't wear a VB liner and wonder if I should not try a pair if I could find a pair thin enough. But then I would also need a supergaitor since the tongue of my Alpha's buckle in a couple spots and snow works it way in. I use to have a pair of Inverno's sized for slogging on Denali but they climbed like the pink bunnie bedroom slippers I am wearing.

 

I did see a fella on his way into climb Denali, among other things, with a pair of Montrail's Ice 9 & crampon one size bigger than his street shoe. He was using a VB liner & some warm socks and a modified OR overboot with 2 different kinds of insulation (using the appropriate insulation accordingly). I guess the overboot has a removable close cell insulation & open cell. I plan to find out how the system worked after he returns.

 

Jedi

[BigWave]

If you look around you can score old rental plastic boots that have great soles but crappy liners ($50) Searcha around for some clearance thermofit liners ($50) score some superfeet insoles and you have a bomber, warm, wonderful set up. Mine are Degre shells, pink Raichle ski boot liners (which I trimmed and had velcro ankle straps put on for $5 at the local shoe repair) and the superfeet out of my ski boots. It's a great sytem that was cheap ($110). I bought a size that was a half size smaller than my street shoe, but only because they had the best soles. Most shells only change size on the whole size. (i.e. 9 and 9.5 boots have the same shell size.) So I think Twight is refering to getting a shell that will fit well with a custom thermomoldable liner.