Dr_Flash_Amazing's avatar

[Gripped]

wtf?

Ashw is saying it's OK to do sick stuff to people (like beat on them) if they want you to do it to them... but with that logic, then it's OK to kill and cannabalize people if they want you to...

 

Clearly, it's not OK to eat people, even if they want you to eat them...

 

Looking for someone other than lummox or trask to argue this point.

[Ratboy]

I meant about the article. Wtf where these people thinking?

[chucK]

It's tough to make a cogent argument about something relatively normal by using an extreme example. Fightin' for fun is not the same as dismembering someone and eating them.

 

And don't tell me that beating each other up at a hardcore show is extreme. People been beating each other for fun for a long time. Fact just this last weekend I watched a little boxing on the tube. First one to knock the other senseless wins!

 

Watch an episode of Bonanza or Star Trek (the original), each episode had an obligatory fistfight.

 

I went to a lot of shows back when they actually called it slamming. We were out in the pit for fun (it wasn't the head crackin' that Doolittle is glorifying, but I didn't attend many shows back East, nor did I go to metal shows). I thought it was way cool how if someone got knocked down, people would pull 'em back up, or at least protect them from getting piled on. As Doolittle said, "The Code."

 

I always thought there was a little bit of a "opportunity in America" analogy going on in there at those shows. Basically, if you really wanted to get a good close-up view of the band, you could. No need to stand in line, be there first, follow any contrived rules. You just had to work hard. Pay your dues, take your lumps, sweat, and you could forge to the front and stay there as long as you were able. And to top off this brilliant analogy, if someone were disadvantaged (small, female, no aerobic endurance) then this opportunity didn't apply. They were just screwed.

[ashw_justin]

wtf?

Ashw is saying it's OK to do sick stuff to people (like beat on them) if they want you to do it to them... but with that logic, then it's OK to kill and cannabalize people if they want you to...

 

Clearly, it's not OK to eat people, even if they want you to eat them...

 

Looking for someone other than lummox or trask to argue this point.

 

hmmm... wasn't expecting that kind of response

 

I'm not even gonna argue this one, so I guess you got me there

[sk]

It's tough to make a cogent argument about something relatively normal by using an extreme example. Fightin' for fun is not the same as dismembering someone and eating them.

 

And don't tell me that beating each other up at a hardcore show is extreme. People been beating each other for fun for a long time. Fact just this last weekend I watched a little boxing on the tube. First one to knock the other senseless wins!

 

Watch an episode of Bonanza or Star Trek (the original), each episode had an obligatory fistfight.

 

I went to a lot of shows back when they actually called it slamming. We were out in the pit for fun (it wasn't the head crackin' that Doolittle is glorifying, but I didn't attend many shows back East, nor did I go to metal shows). I thought it was way cool how if someone got knocked down, people would pull 'em back up, or at least protect them from getting piled on. As Doolittle said, "The Code."

 

I always thought there was a little bit of a "opportunity in America" analogy going on in there at those shows. Basically, if you really wanted to get a good close-up view of the band, you could. No need to stand in line, be there first, follow any contrived rules. You just had to work hard. Pay your dues, take your lumps, sweat, and you could forge to the front and stay there as long as you were able. And to top off this brilliant analogy, if someone were disadvantaged (small, female, no aerobic endurance) then this opportunity didn't apply. They were just screwed.

HI CHUCK sounds like you were at shows like I was at. I got the shit kicked out of me by some skins at a show... and this guy in a HUGE red mohawk pulled me up off the floor shoved me against a wall and stood infront of me until I stopped bleeding

 

damn that was fun

[Dru]

my friend Islena, who was like 5'0" at the time, stage dived at this SNFU show around 88 or 89 and hit some 6'4" pig farmer type wearing overalls (as I recall) in the head with one of her steel toecap shitkickers and knocked him out cold

 

punk is so dead

[Dru]

but with that logic, then it's OK to kill and cannabalize people if they want you to...

 

Clearly, it's not OK to eat people, even if they want you to eat them...

 

 

Anton Miewes?

[sk]

my friend Islena, who was like 5'0" at the time, stage dived at this SNFU show around 88 or 89 and hit some 6'4" pig farmer type wearing overalls (as I recall) in the head with one of her steel toecap shitkickers and knocked him out cold

 

punk is so dead

I was being ganged up on by 2 skin chicks and the 3 guys they were with because I was smarting off to them outside before the show. well some things never change

[Dru]

skinhead chicks like fully bald or skinhead chicks with front fringe

[sk]

skinhead chicks like fully bald or skinhead chicks with front fringe

one of each

[EWolfe]

I think that the fact that DFA hasn't weighed in on this thread is worth mentioning.

 

Punk?

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

"then you start thrashing like never before

stagediving, headwalking like mad

doing your thing all over the floor

the best time that you've ever had

 

you're hurt all over but can't feel a thing

not until the next day,

then you wake up, stiff as a board

and the pain won't go awayyyyyyy!"

 

[ken4ord]

I can't believe I didn't tune into this thread earlier, damn good one. I found it really amusing all the railing on Doolittle on his experience at shows. Yeah I been to a few shows in my day and had my run in with the East Coast FSU crew, bunch of dicks in my opinion, at least the one I used run into, since all they really were there for was to beat the shit out of someone. That's not to say that I am one of those West Coast sorry I touched you kind of person. No I liked and still like to get into the fray. I think Cracked responses were so fucking stupid. His responses really sound like he has no experience with the hardcore scene. Then whoever that moron was that said something to fact that hardcore shows are angsted teens just trying to work out anger in a physical manner and that it isn't productive, doesn't have a clue. I remember being one of those teens back in the day and the calmness that I felt after a good thrashing. Basically still do the same thing, just in a different format, in the mountains climbing or riding bike.

 

Thanks DFA for the avatar and Doolittle for your persistence.

[lancegranite]

TIME MACHINE!!!!!

moving thru time now...the year is 1991!!!!!!

I am 19 and grunge rock has been coined by the major media.

The fine local acts go supermega and another local music scene dies in front of millions of innocents...the hair! the flannel!...all gone!

 

Tad, where are you?

[cracked]

Ken4ord, you're perfectly right. I'm sorry that I think that beating the tar out of yourself and your friends is a less than attractive proposal. Such base and primitive outlets of aggression should be encouraged in our society, as it benefits us all. Thanks for the enlightenment.

[MrDoolittle]

crackhead: you're the type of douche that I would take the greatest pleasure pummelling: totally weak, totally ignorant, afraid. And your sarcasm sucks. Haven't you learned yet that sarcasm and a text based BB do not mix.

 

Our society glorifies violence all the time. Turn on your TV and scan the band, you'll find heaps of violence, and you can be a hero if you're violent enough, but most importantly if your violence is SANCTIONED, if it has SOCIETAL APPROVAL.

 

People like you reject, devalue, and demean the Hardcore scene because it lacks our society's Seal of Approval. For instance, it's OK to go see Pearl Jam and bump into each other, slap and tickle, in the "mosh pit" (a phrase I loathe), but it's not OK to maul a Hair at Sick of it All. The latter, as far as your concerned, for a number of reasons, is too much, it's too beyond, it's wrong. The former is safe, clean, sterile, OK.

 

But Harcore is the way for a segment of our society. The Hair is fine with it, or he wouldn't go to the show, and the Punk plays his role by giving the Hair what he wants/needs/deserves/whatever.

 

I'd see people like you go to shows, and you could tell that they were in over their heads. They had the look of fear, eyes wide, mouth tight, but it was because they didn't understand what it was all about.

 

It really wasn't violence. It was about music, and self-expression, and dance, and releasing your agression, frustration, and anger towards anything in a healthy way, and in a safe environment.

 

Sure, some people took it too far, because they thought it was about "fighting", and that's what it looked like to the untrained eye. They couldn't see that my "pummelling" had a pattern to it, and that I had fluid motion, and that my fists swung to the music. But those poeple were brought into check real quick by the scene's mechanisms of self-management.

 

You may come to a show looking for a fight, but I'm there to DANCE, and if you harshed my buzz, if you start to "fight", you would get shut down. Keep it up, get in someones face, small man, big mouth, and take it too far, and you'd get your ass kicked for real, and get shown the door.

 

Sadly, crackfiend, you're too stupid to get it, so my words are really for the rest of you.

 

The first time I shaved my head, it was before a Cro-Mags show. That crowd had a rep for being full of Skins that would FSU on anyone, and I was really afraid that I would die. It was my second show, and I was just an ignorant kid. But when I got to the show, I looked around to see Hairs, Punks, and Skins sharing the scene together. Looking back, I realize that most of my fear came from inside, a product of my own ignorance.

 

Why are you afraid?

[Gripped]

It's tough to make a cogent argument about something relatively normal by using an extreme example. Fightin' for fun is not the same as dismembering someone and eating them.

 

You're right, they are not the same.

The arguement you're using ("It's OK, everyone consented") is faulty... this can be observed by looking at an extreme example.

 

Just because something happens a lot does not make it right.

 

Just because your argument is weak, does not mean that hardcore shows are wrong.

[minx]

Our society glorifies violence all the time. Turn on your TV and scan the band, you'll find heaps of violence, and you can be a hero if you're violent enough, but most importantly if your violence is SANCTIONED, if it has SOCIETAL APPROVAL.

 

 

see my sig.

 

just b/c society says it's right doesn't make it so. although, you're correct in saying that as a society we glorify violence, that doesn't mean it's right.*

 

*except that i'm going to beat the fuck out of the prick who stole my jeep last night if i find him.

[Dru]

what if a girl stole your jeep huh?

[badvoodoo]

what if a girl stole your jeep huh?

 

Then there's gonna be a mother of a catfight. Sorry to hear about the jeep, minx. That shit makes me mental.

 

My take on the hardcore scene, mind you from an outside perspective: better beating the crap out of each other willingly than beating other people. Hell, it's even better than some of those big corporate sponsored frat-boy music festivals, where they end up tearing down everything and burning it and looting whatever they can. I'd rather have those with violent tendancies gather and take it out on each other in a consciencious way than hide it and let it stew in proper Puritan fashion until it inevitably boils over in one of them. Hardcore doesn't impose itself on my "west-coast yuppie life"; kids bringing guns to school does. You keep your violence to yourself, we'll do fine. You impose it on me, you won't last long.

[Ratboy]

I couldn't give less than a fuck whether people want to go to a show and beat the shit out of each other. What I find extremely amusing is Doolittle's holier-than-thou attitude that he's a better than everyone else because he did it.

 

[sk]

Our society glorifies violence all the time. Turn on your TV and scan the band, you'll find heaps of violence, and you can be a hero if you're violent enough, but most importantly if your violence is SANCTIONED, if it has SOCIETAL APPROVAL.

 

 

see my sig.

 

just b/c society says it's right doesn't make it so. although, you're correct in saying that as a society we glorify violence, that doesn't mean it's right.*

 

*except that i'm going to beat the fuck out of the prick who stole my jeep last night if i find him.

OMG THAT IS SO SUCK

[MrDoolittle]

I couldn't give less than a fuck whether people want to go to a show and beat the shit out of each other. What I find extremely amusing is Doolittle's holier-than-thou attitude that he's a better than everyone else because he did it.

 

 

I'm not better than anyone else, just you...bitch.

[minx]

I couldn't give less than a fuck whether people want to go to a show and beat the shit out of each other. What I find extremely amusing is Doolittle's holier-than-thou attitude that he's a better than everyone else because he did it.

 

 

I'm not better than anyone else, just you...bitch.

 

 

[fenderfour]

Then there is always someone who takes it too far. I was at a Chimaira show that had 3 hardcore opening bands. Most of the Chimaira fans didn't show up until they hit the stage and most of the earlier fans were only there for the hardcore acts. There was a girl who wasn't dancing, she was just trying to hit anyone and everyone in the face. She tagged me in the eye and I got pretty upset. An accidental black eye is ok, a straight shot from a spoiled little shit is another matter. She told he friends that I hit her first. An obvious lie. If I had, she wouldn't have had a chance to hit me back. Right as things were getting interesting with three 17 year old idiots ponying up to "kick my ass" , a security guard showed up and kicked out the whole lot of them. It was a bitchin show after that . It was funny telling people that a 17 year old girl gave me a black eye.