The Magic Line

[Ade]

Has anyone ever used or even looked at any gear by these guys?

 

http://www.themagicline.com/

[John Frieh]

Glanced at it once at the trade show: looked okay (assuming memory serves me true... too much gear... too many companies... can't keep it all straight); obviously some stuff was bunk (clothing). What are you in the market for?

[Mark_Husbands]

"The Magic Line is owned by Fabrizio Zangrilli and is based in Boulder, Colorado" - from website

 

Boulder = image = marketing = $$$ (e.g Nuptse alpine pack = $315, "m jacket" = $315) maybe fabrizios alfa romeo lease is $315/mo

 

we shall assume these products to be of the highest quality, but will never afford to know

[Lambone]

whatever...

 

I spent a month on Ama Dablam with Fabrizio. He is the real deal, he climbs hard, big peaks and is funny as hell. He's not some Boulder yuppie. He spends most of his time guiding in Chamonix and the rest traveling around the world to cllimb gnarly stuff. When I was there with him he held the speed record on the SW Ridge.

 

I'm not sure about their claim to be the only company using "integrated systems" though...

[cj001f]

whatever...

 

I'm not sure about their claim to be the only company using "integrated systems" though...

I don't know anything about Fabrizio.

 

The company does seam to be heavy on hype. $159 for Epic pants? That's $100 more than Wild Things version! (which don't have zippers - but are 4oz lighter!) $195 for an Epic Jacket? That's $105 more than the Wild Things version - which it is identical in features to. There's always cut, but still....you can get modifications done, for a true custom cut, for less.

[cracked]

Climbing hard doesn't make an intelligent designer.

[Mark_Husbands]

 

...Fabrizio. He is the real deal, he climbs hard, big peaks and is funny as hell.

 

I dont doubt he's a skilled climber and I take your word for it he's a good guy. but you gotta have a sense of humor about Boulder...and the ML gear prices are very high, come on.

[JoshK]

"The Magic Line is owned by Fabrizio Zangrilli and is based in Boulder, Colorado" - from website

 

Boulder = image = marketing = $$$ (e.g Nuptse alpine pack = $315, "m jacket" = $315) maybe fabrizios alfa romeo lease is $315/mo

 

we shall assume these products to be of the highest quality, but will never afford to know

 

The same could be said of Seattle. I can't think of a city more associated with fake-outdoorsie types who are more interested in driving SUVs and wearing north face shit for the image than actually going outdoors. That doesn't mean all the gear makers and climbers here suck tho.

 

In any event, I have pretty much come to the conclusion that anybody can make quality gear these days. It's about the features and design that you like, such as fit, etc. Most of the work will get farmed out to a sew shop, and lets face it, sewing is not rocket science any more. the "hand made" crap is a joke. A machine can sew things ten times cheaper, faster and better than any human can. Pick the design you like, the features you like and the product that fits you the best and you'll be fine.

 

Cracked is right on the money too, I might be a suck ass climber but I could design a much better product than a lot of the junk I see out there. Now if only had a big name to market it with...

[sill]

"The Magic Line is owned by Fabrizio Zangrilli and is based in Boulder, Colorado" - from website

 

Boulder = image = marketing = $$$ (e.g Nuptse alpine pack = $315, "m jacket" = $315) maybe fabrizios alfa romeo lease is $315/mo

 

we shall assume these products to be of the highest quality, but will never afford to know

 

I second what Lambone said. I have run into Fabrizio many many times over the last two winters while I have lived and and climbed in Ouray and he has been very cool to be around whether he was guiding in the ice park or climbing with his friends. He is definately the real deal. For you to bag on him without even knowing a thing about him is a complete joke. He has been up K2 as well as the peaks Lambone mentioned and is a very stong all around climber from what I have seen. The gear he is producing comes from his own experience in alpine climbing, unlike most gear companies these days. Yeah, the stuff is expensive, but it is no more expensive and works much better than the some of crap that's out there. One other thing, the training info on his website is really good for anyone wanting to formulate a more stuctured training regime for themselves.

[cracked]

I second what Lambone said. I have run into Fabrizio many many times over the last two winters while I have lived and and climbed in Ouray and he has been very cool to be around whether he was guiding in the ice park or climbing with his friends. He is definately the real deal. For you to bag on him without even knowing a thing about him is a complete joke. He has been up K2 as well as the peaks Lambone mentioned and is a very stong all around climber from what I have seen. The gear he is producing comes from his own experience in alpine climbing, unlike most gear companies these days. Yeah, the stuff is expensive, but it is no more expensive and works much better than the some of crap that's out there.

So what gear of his have you used? Probably a lot, since you're so sure that it works so well. Spill the beans.

 

You don't seem to get it. BEING A GOOD CLIMBER DOESN'T MAKE YOU A GOOD DESIGNER. Indeed, being a 'cool guy' and/or 'the real deal' doesn't make you a good designer, either. I don't care what he's climbed, all it does is make a marketable image for his products.

[tomtom]

I have an earlier version of the M jacket that I bought at auction at the Ouray Ice festival. I had looked at their booth and chatted with Fabrizio, who is a friendly guy.

 

Used the jacket for ice climbing at Banff, and it worked fine. The hood was great for modulating temperature.

 

The Nuptse pack looked interesting.

[mwills]

i climbed ice with Fabrizio this past winter up in Orient Bay. very modest and humble guy as well as a blast to hang out with at the pub. as said before, he has done plenty of hard shit (attempt on S Face of Nuptse ). that being said, i don't think he uses this ENOUGH for marketing his company- check the webpage. really, how many of you knew who he was before this post?

 

as for the gear - it IS top quality!! unless you have seen it or used it i would hold off on an opinion. the best way to describe it is take the craftsmanship of Arcteryx and combine with the utility of Wild Things.

 

The softshell rocks : smart cut results in a jacket that doesn't ride up when you raise your arms, the schoeller is backed with wool (better insulation and wicking material than synthetic). same goes for the pants. the backpack will likely find the same following the WT Andinista enjoys. wait until the gloves come oute . sure the prices are are high, but just like Wild Things, tailored designs for a small market segment come at a premium.

[Lambone]

So Cracked, spill the beans...what is it about those designs that you don't like?

 

Mark Husbands bagged on Fabrizio for being from Boulder. We are just saying that he's a cool guy whos climbed lots of stuff. I'd hasten to say more stuff then anyone on this board.

 

Personally I think they have some good design concepts. For instance, I really like that they put different weights of insulation in different areas of their bags and jackets. You don't see this alot out there. For an alpin bag I want something that will keep my feet warm, but I am ussualy wearing my belay jacket, so I don't need so much insulation up there.

 

I do think their whole "System" thing is kind of a gimmic. They seem more like standalone products then anything else...I don't see what benefit using their pack and jacket together has...???

 

And the prices are steep compared to say Wild Things or Integral Designs. I wonder where the stuff is made?

 

Maybe you should try to sell them your "Gort" design?

[cj001f]

sure the prices are are high, but just like Wild Things, tailored designs for a small market segment come at a premium.

Their Epic stuff is twice the price of Wild Things. I just don't see much innovative with their gear (aside from liberal use of zippers - which a seamstress can add for you, for less $) to justify their rather high price.

[cracked]

Reading comprehension isn't your strong point, I see.

 

The designs looks fine, but I can't have an opinion without having at least tried the stuff on. I was simply pointing out that your argument based on the climbing ability of the dude is flawed.

 

The gorts were unique in that, to my knowledge, there are no other simple nylon pants with a crotch gusset. Other than that, they were crude, but worked very well.

[JoshK]

cracked, I think you are shouting into a vacuum. Nobody seems to be hearing the "good climber does not make good gear designer" point

 

 

None of their stuff looks that original. I cant see paying that much money when you can get gear from existing manufactuers for less money that does the exact same thing.

[miller]

yeah, the dis on fabrizio is totally unfounded - i ran into him sunday night (he is friends with one of my main partners here in CO) in boulder at the marko prezelj slide show - super nice guy. he won an ice screw in the raffle and instead of keeping it he said, "you know, i really dont need this - maybe somebody else would be happy to have this screw" and he let it go to the next name drawn. most folks, and certainly not "selfish money hungry boulder yuppies", would not do that. but im glad to say that others have already come to his defense...

 

anyway, the same partner that introduced me to fabrizio also owns a pair of magic line pants. they are very well designed. my partner is pretty psyched on them. im not sure which model, but theyre a shoeller type pant. climbing in RMNP all winter, he stays drier then i do, and warmer as well. the pants are definitely a bit warmer then other schoeller type pants. the ankles are super tight fitting - meant to be pulled around the boot. my partner loves them - the only thing he has complained about is that they dont have pockets. but i guess to the credit of fabrizio and magic line, they do state clearly on their site that their products are meant to be used as a system.

[cj001f]

cracked, I think you are shouting into a vacuum. Nobody seems to be hearing the "good climber does not make good gear designer" point

The argument seems to be "charity for a cool dude"

[Lambone]

No the argument is that Fabrizio acctually climbs, and designs his own stuff. His designs are not all "Marketing and Image," they are based on years of experience and testing that he's put in.

 

People seem to be confusing The Magic Line with The North Face or something. TNF pays good Poster Boy climbers for face shots in magazine and put out crappy non-functional products made in sweat shops. word is North Face is also movinbg to Boulder...

[tomtom]

When I spoke to Fabrizio, he said his garments were made locally. Therefore, they are going to be more expensive than Far East imports. Arcteryx is more expensive because it is made in Canada.

[JoshK]

I still maintain that "far east" produced goods are not inferior. The sweat shop issue, however, is one of personal choice. The fact is a machine can sew things perfectly well these days. I think it's prety hard to screw up.

[Lambone]

Josh...what exactly are you talking about?

 

sorry this is getting off topic...

 

But do you think that outdoor soft goods manufactured in Asia are produced on some fully automated assmbely line?

 

No, they are made by laborers with sewing machines. Lots of them. Same as here in the States, only we pay our laborers a living wage and give them breaks and stuff like that...

[cj001f]

word is North Face is also movinbg to Boulder...

Again? They already were there (this was about the tiem they started to suck). Then they moved back to CA.

 

Sewing is still a very labor intensive business - it's not particularly automated. I'm not sure what magic "fully automated" machines Josh is talking about - it's manual labor. Hard manual labor - and there aren't many in the US willing to do it anymore.

[JoshK]

Josh...what exactly are you talking about?

 

sorry this is getting off topic...

 

But do you think that outdoor soft goods manufactured in Asia are produced on some fully automated assmbely line?

 

No, they are made by laborers with sewing machines. Lots of them. Same as here in the States, only we pay our laborers a living wage and give them breaks and stuff like that...

 

No, I simply meant they work with sewing machine just likes workers over here...it's not like they are stitching by hand. My point was that a sewing machine can be operated just as well by a sweat shop worker as a more highly paid worker in the U.S. Sewing is not a science. I think the crap about US made climbing appearal and packs being of better quality than Asian sweat shop made products is wrong.

 

Now, granted, I am totally against sweat shops, which is why I said if your personal opinion says not to buy from them, than that is totally comendable.

[Lambone]

I worked at the North Face for 4 years back in the early 90's. It was right during the their change from US production to China production. I looked at the stuff everyday, and logged warranty items a day long. when I first started the majority of warranty stuff was tents and sleeping bags from the 80's, maybe a jacket or two with fried Gortex. After the transition I saw tons of stuff that was only a year, or months old coming in all the time. Miss-cut fabrics, faulty stitching, bad zippers and buttons. Seriously...all the time. There was a huge difference.

 

Still I think it has more to do with volumes of production and quality control rather then the skill of the production employee. US brands typicaly have smaller volumes and better quality control systems in place.

 

What is really funny is if you go over to Nepal and see all the mock up North Face and Patagonia crap that local vendos sell. They stitch on fake labels and try to pass it off on tourists. But if you look close it is total back alley junk.

Edited April 14, 2004 by Lambone