scot'teryx Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Did anyone else see the documentary with Tommy Caldwell, Beth Rodden, Jason Smith, and John Dickey last night on the Discovery Channel? It was about being held hostage for six days by Islamic militants in Kyrgyzstan. Not much climbing footage, but an interesting story to say the least. In the end, their story was confirmed by the man they thought they killed. Hard to believe their story was thought to have been "made up" for a Hollywood Movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluck Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Yeah - that was awesome. I could have gone for some more gratuitous climbing shots, but the story was totally riveting. One thing I found interesting was that Tommy was all broken up about how he killed a guy. Then, the guy turns up alive, but is captured and sentanced to death anyway. His point was it didn't really matter that the guy didn't actually die, or even that he deserved it. But that he was able to force himself to kill another human being; and that scared the shit out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllYouCanEat Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 I watched it by accident. It seemed like a cool story. Too bad stone phillips and whoever the other dude was were the ones who had to interview and host. They should've just let the story speak for itself rather than 'add the jaws music' type crap to make it appear that way. Oh well. I did see touching the void and that was good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 story synopsis: young morons ignorant of government warnings to not travel in the area go get their asses the equivalent of carjacked by yet another idiot who they eventually push over a cliff. epilogue: the pusher idiot cuts his own finger off with a power tool yet is praised by the gullible public for his bravery in the face of self-manufactured 'adversity'. really. this behavior is despicable even in people with 47 chromosomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Saw it, very interesting... lummox, I agree with you to a point, but... the US government has issued warnings about traveling in most of Asia, Pakistan, Nepal, Indonessia...etc. Are you saying people are stupid to go climb there? If the same thing hgad happened to some climbers going to Evrest or Ama Dablam, only the captors were Moaist rebels...would you have a different opinion? How about someone going to K2 or the Trangos getting pinched by Taliban supporters? They took a chance, and luckily got out of it. Throwing that guy off the cliff must have been a trip though...especialy for a climber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 I agree with Lambone. If climbers followed the warnings posted by the State Department, most of Asia and South America would be off-limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 story synopsis: young morons ignorant of government warnings to not travel in the area go get their asses the equivalent of carjacked by yet another idiot who they eventually push over a cliff... I find your take on this thread interesting, lummox, especially coming after this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 story synopsis: young morons ignorant of government warnings to not travel in the area go get their asses the equivalent of carjacked by yet another idiot who they eventually push over a cliff... I find your take on this thread interesting, lummox, especially coming after this thread. i find your inability to detect sarcasm 'interesting'. ya got aspergers or sumpin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Two good friends of mine did the Peace Corps in Kyrgistan for a year. They had to leave a year early after 9/11 though...they were devistated. Like most of those hot spots, the risk is really determined by the region you are in. Tommy and Crew were right next to the Uzebc boarder...however other parts of kyrgez are realatively safe. Khan-Ten-Gri is a pretty "politicaly" safe big peak to climb, so I hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 i find your inability to detect sarcasm 'interesting'. ya got aspergers or sumpin? Yeah... whatever. I'll let the record speak for itself. AMF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oleg Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 What bothers me most about this story is that people here do not realize that PEOPLE GOT KILLED DUE TO FEW STUPID CLIMBERS and these dudes are been glorified for this. YOu are asking what if smbd climbs in Pakistan and get cought etc., you should ask would it be cool if you go climb in Afganistan knowing whats going on there, get caught by Taleban fighters and then being rescued by US troops but during this rescue more than 10 soldiers die? How hero it would look? May be you do not care because it was Kyrgyz soldiers. Oleg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 True, but there is a war going on and people are getting killed with or without climbers caught in the middle... Did the kyrgez/Uzbecs die because of the climbers...not really. they died because they shot eachother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oleg Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 This is exactly what happend - they died BECAUSE of climbers. I climbed in this place few times in early 90s and know what I am talking about. This people died because the government ordered troops to go to this valley. Nobody lives there (except one guy summertime), nobody would go there to fight, troops usually positioned on the passes in well fortified places where there is much less chance for troops get killed esp. against such small band. If there is larger band, they call for air/artillery support - again much less killed troops. In this case 100% blame on climbers. Oleg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllYouCanEat Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 What bothers me most about this story is that people here do not realize that PEOPLE GOT KILLED DUE TO FEW STUPID CLIMBERS and these dudes are been glorified for this. YOu are asking what if smbd climbs in Pakistan and get cought etc., you should ask would it be cool if you go climb in Afganistan knowing whats going on there, get caught by Taleban fighters and then being rescued by US troops but during this rescue more than 10 soldiers die? How hero it would look? May be you do not care because it was Kyrgyz soldiers. Oleg I appreciate you for clarifying. I meant interesting, not cool. You make a good point that did occur to me while watching the show. And no matter who they are, other's dying, does bother me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 This is exactly what happend - they died BECAUSE of climbers. I climbed in this place few times in early 90s and know what I am talking about. This people died because the government ordered troops to go to this valley. Nobody lives there (except one guy summertime), nobody would go there to fight, troops usually positioned on the passes in well fortified places where there is much less chance for troops get killed esp. against such small band. If there is larger band, they call for air/artillery support - again much less killed troops. In this case 100% blame on climbers. Oleg So you climbed there 10 years ago...so you are totaly aware of the current situation there...yeah, sure. Sorry, didn't realize you were the authority on the subject... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 he has a point Lambone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest_m Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 didn't john bouchard do a long article looking at this aspect of the event a while back (in outside i think?). IIRC, he follows the military group that's out looking for them basicalyl hour by hour, and makes it pretty clear that they made some decisions (i.e. cross a defended bridge) that they would not ordinarily have made because they were being pressured by the higher ups to rescue the tourists. while the americans did eventually escape on their own, the escape was only really possible because the kidnappers were under so much pressure from the military. on the other hand, you could make this same argument about practically any military mission, i.e. soldiers go somewhere where they otherwise wouldn't go and put themselves at risk because the commanders have decided that some larger goal is served by them doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 i recall Tommy said his picture would never appear in said mag again after Climbing ran Bouchard's article. he got upset someone didn't believe his story as his word! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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