Snowmobiles on summit at St. Helens...

[Lowell_Skoog]

NOW READ THIS: I just called the Mt St Helens National Volcanic Monument office and asked whether snowmobiles are allowed on the summit of the mountain.

 

They are.

 

I asked whether they are restricted anywhere in the Monument and was told they could not go into the blast area. So I said, "In other words they can go anywhere that people on foot can go?" The answer is yes.

[Tom]

Well kids, here is the response to my email to the NVM:

 

Tom - Thank you for your interest in Mount St. Helens National Volcanic Monument. I appreciate you taking the time to comment about your experience to the Monument.

 

In 1985 the Comprehensive Management Plan for Mount St. Helens NVM (CMP) was signed by the Regional Forester. This plan took over two years of planning and public involvement to complete. This document was an Environmental Impact Statement. The plan authorised over-snow vehicle use on the Monument with a few exceptions. The south side above 4800 foot

elevation is an area where such over-snow use was authorized. This Comprehensive Management Plan was later incorporated into the Forest Plan

for the Gifford Pinchot NF.

 

The CMP also called for the area above 4800 foot elevation to be closed to climbing until a permit system was developed by 1987 to administer mountain climbing within the carrying capacity of the resource, and to provide the

users with information on specific hazards. User conflicts between snowmoblers and climbers was not raised as an issue durning the development of the climbing permit system. During the development of the Marble Mt.

Snowpark in 1988, it was recommended by the various user groups that the snowpark be developed in such a way as to allow for multiple use of the area. The feeling was that the area be used by all and that the Forest Service should not restrict use of the area to one use over another. This is how we have been managing the area since the CMP was signed.

 

When the Forest Plan comes up for revision in several years, the Forest will take another look at the Management of this area.

 

Thank you again for your interest in Mount St. Helens NVM.

 

Reed E. Gardner

Deputy Monument Manager

(360) 247-3943

 

The bottom line is nothing will be changed unless it is perceived as a problem. It's easy enough to complain, go to this website link. There is an email link there, which is what I used, and a feedback form. I would suggest the feedback be constructive, and NOT anomynous. And please, don't suggest the use of deadly force...

[philfort]

Ok, so this means you can now climb St Helens for free. "Where is your permit?" asks the ranger. You say: "I don't need one, I came up on a snowmobile", and say it is just "over there" aways....

[David_Parker]

Anyone want to give me a ride up to the rim on their sled so I can ski down. I don't like to earn my turns!

 

Seriously, this is unbelievable! Makes you wonder who's making the policies out there. Maybe next year they can install a chairlift or a tram!

 

I think they need to revisit these policies. Perhaps they were written when they never dreamed a snowmobile could make it that far. With the bigger, badder machines out there that can climb anything skiers can, new policies may be in order.

[b-rock]

Shit dude, I'm going to buy a sled and start charging kiddies in the sno-park lot for rides to the top. Come on... 4K of vertical, $20 a ride. Or perhaps tow a sled for an increased capacity? How about a snow cat?

[wayne]

I have a buddy who is a very serious snow mo dude and he is as proud of his ascent of st.Hels as we are of our our most proud climbs. I dont agree that it should be allowed at all! but there is always another perspective opposite of any given veiw Should I tell him he sucks? he is twice my weight

[Tom]

He should lose some weight, so he doesn't need sled to haul his fat ass up the hill!!!!!!!

[oldclimber]

Am I to understand from comments on this thread that if I drive a snowmobile to the summit of St. helens I do so for free---- but if I crampon to the summit I must pay 15 dollars?

Fee demo is bullshit but this is lunacy!

[Tom]

I went through the NVM website pretty thoroughly, and at no point could I find fee structure for the sleds. However, it was very up front on how much it cost to park and climb - and where we had to sign in and out at. Now it may be they recover something from the Washington ORV sticker fund - who knows, but it does seem unfair.

 

Like I said earlier in the thread, unless you complain in a measurable way, nothing will get done. The link is in an earlier post...

[Fairweather]

quote:

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Originally posted by cj001f:

quote:

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As for a firearm in a NP; I've heard that this rule (law?) is probably unconstitutional and that the Govt' lets apprehended (posession) violators off because they know this rule would be deemed so in court. I'm not sure the right to protect one's self/family ends at a NP boundary. But when I read irresponsible comments about executing snowmobilers I wonder if the ban is a good idea.

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Sorry to burst your Bubble Fairweather - but the no Firearms law in National Parks does stand up in court. At least once a month - read their Morning Report. It's generally applied in situations when the user has violated other federal laws - but that's because it's the only time the over worked rangers have time to notice guns.

 

I would guess a Desert Eagle would make a nice end to a 'bile.

 

Carl

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Cj

 

I've carried a firearm openly in Wrangell/St Elias as did all others I encountered. The rangers I talked to saw it and one even told me it was "a good idea" as bear problems were likely. ( he was right...but no, I didn't use the gun. ) This was well inside the park boundary. Is the "no firearms rule" selectively enforced?

 

AS for the snow machines allowed all the way up St Helens.....shocking! ...but I can live with it until the next round of "planning" within the monument.

[Rodchester]

I do not need to pay to summit Mt. St. helens....I am a "over-snow vehicle"!!!!!!

[mtngrrrl]

This raises a question that my partner and were contemplating on Sunday. What would happen if we were busted on St. Helens without a permit? Answer: we would be fined. (right??) Ok, so what happens if we refuse to pay the fine? Anyone know? We were pretty chafed about getting to the little store (Jack's?) outside of Cougar past closing time on Saturday night and thus unable to purchase a permit for Sunday. Mind you, we are still in the no-quota time period, so I'm wondering why there isn't a self-serve option. The store doesn't open until 7:00, and we planned to start earlier than that.

 

I just read through the thread on the Forest Service Pass, and I just want to add that I'm getting more than a little sick of all these permits and fees. Sno park fee, NW Forest pass, climbing above 4800 feet on St. Helen's fee. NOW I hear that snow-machines can go up to the top PERMIT AND FEE FREE??? WTF. I am ticked off. I'm down with philfort. From now on it goes like this: Oh I'm not a CLIMBER. My snowmobile is around here somehwere... I just thought I'd walk around a bit and stretch.

 

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Madam, you appear to be enjoying yourself. Can I see your permit for having fun?

 

[ 04-23-2002, 12:40 AM: Message edited by: mtngrrrl ]

[cj001f]

quote:

---

I've carried a firearm openly in Wrangell/St Elias as did all others I encountered. The rangers I talked to saw it and one even told me it was "a good idea" as bear problems were likely. ( he was right...but no, I didn't use the gun. ) This was well inside the park boundary. Is the "no firearms rule" selectively enforced?

---

I would guess in this case, as in many other things, it is a case of Alaska being different than the lower 48. I can't think of any park in the lower 48 where the Ranger would let it fly(but I could be wrong, and probably will be proven). I do know of several cases of people being cited in Yellowstone, Redwood and Shenandoah NP

 

Carl

[pete_a]

As many of you might know, the last weekend before the summer quota on the number of climbers on St.Helens is quickly approaching (May 11/12). The annual Mothers Day ski in a dress from the crater rim extravaganza is happening Sunday May 12th. Should be a pretty decent party/backcountry goofball gathering in the Marblemount parking lot Saturday night before heading up to ski on that Sunday.

I've bought permits to climb the past four years when I've gone, and for the exception of last year (probably due to shitty weather and a low snowpack) I've been stopped by a forest circus ranger who wanted to see my permit. But after reading this thread and hearing that its legal to ride a goddamn polluting sled to the crater rim, and not even have to pay for a permit....I'm really thinking about skipping the permit this year and just dealing with the consequences. Does anyone know how bad the ticket is if you get caught without a permit? Do they really enforce the tickets? or is the more of the same bullshit hollow threat if you ignore buying a trailhead permit?

[rbw1966]

quote:

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Originally posted by rayborbon:

It's funny how these subjects regurgitate every season..

---

Unlike the endless bolting wars

[pete_a]

If you want to make an attempt at taking some action...although I think this is probably a futile battle against the forest circus, write a letter to the Gifford Pinchot National Forest and the St.Helens Volcanic Monument about this. The offpiste website has a very nicely drafted letter which you can print out, sign your name to and mail off. The mailing addresses are on the website.

http://www.offpistemag.com/access/takeaction/sthelsnomo.html

 

By the way, I just called the St.Helens Monument office... (360)247-3900 The guy I spoke with said exactly what Lowell wrote...I also asked him...'If I was to rope tow all my ski buddies up to the summit with a snowmobile (of course I don't own a snowmobile and never would buy one) would anyone of us have to buy a permit?' The answer was 'no, if you have a snowmobile, you don't have to pay anything' I asked who enforces the permits on the mountain, he said sometimes its a Skamania county sherrif office (probably on a snowmobile) or a f.s. ranger. I'm going to do some checking around and find out how much the ticket is if you get caught.

 

[ 04-23-2002, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: pete a ]

[rayborbon]

quote:

---

Originally posted by rbw1966:

quote:

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Originally posted by rayborbon:

It's funny how these subjects regurgitate every season..

---

Unlike the endless bolting wars

---

Yeah the endless bolt wars are more funny. Are you trying to say something or are you just mad I ripped the bolts out of DDD? Please send your tears via mail to:

 

Bite Me Loser

1234 Mockingbird Lane

Mazama,WA 12345

[rbw1966]

quote:

---

Originally posted by rayborbon:

---

Yeah the endless bolt wars are more funny. Are you trying to say something or are you just mad I ripped the bolts out of DDD? Please send your tears via mail to:

 

Bite Me Loser

1234 Mockingbird Lane

Mazama,WA 12345[/QB]

 

I'm less interested in your chopping job (what is DDD? The initials of your lover? He must be hurting after the "ripping") then you seem to be with my comment.

 

Have one of your favorite genera of malt liquor on me.

[rayborbon]

Hello Rob,

 

So what is your point. If you read anything about the bolt wars your quoting me makes no sense other than to target me for some nonsense like DDD. Which is the initials of your mom. I pulled one on her P.S. I did not chop I removed. THere is a difference brainiac.

 

[ 04-23-2002, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: rayborbon ]

[rbw1966]

In a private message Raybonbon writes:

 

Subject: You got beef

 

Message: If so fuck off. I'd probably be able to kick your ass anyways..

 

Ray--

 

You blocked my ability to reply to the above via private message so I'll take the liberty to do so here.

 

Nope, no beef with you. Don't know you, don't care. Just making a comment on the endless discussion of bolting wars. Nothing personal was implied.

[rbw1966]

quote:

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Originally posted by rayborbon:

Hello Rob,

 

So what is your point.

If you read anything about the bolt wars your quoting me makes no sense other than to target me for some nonsense like DDD. Which is the initials of your mom. I pulled one on her

P.S. I did not chop I removed. THere is a difference brainiac.

---

My point, which I am sorry was so subtle, was that most topics on here get regurgitated. I don't understand why you took it so personally.

 

I'm really sorry. I give you my word that I will never quote you ever again. Mkay?

[rayborbon]

quote:

---

Originally posted by rbw1966:

In a private message Raybonbon writes:

 

Subject: You got beef

 

Message: If so fuck off. I'd probably be able to kick your ass anyways..

 

Ray--

 

You blocked my ability to reply to the above via private message so I'll take the liberty to do so here.

 

Nope, no beef with you. Don't know you, don't care. Just making a comment on the endless discussion of bolting wars. Nothing personal was implied.

---

So why quote me? Get lost. Oh yeah and tell your friends to stop sending me the similar messages. I dont need any pussy ass whimps hiding behind internet addresses telling me what I can do and say. You are included. If you have personal comments then say them to me personally. Otherwise shut up.

 

I advise you to read the stupid bolt wars threads deeper. Then relaize that you quoting me is stupid and trying to finger me for something.

[rbw1966]

You really are paranoid. I have no idea what you are referring to. I have never PM'ed you before. Ever. Nor has anyone I know, but then again I don't know anyone on this message board except for one other Portlander.

 

And I didn't read the bolting diatribe.

[rayborbon]

quote:

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Originally posted by rbw1966:

You really are paranoid. I have no idea what you are referring to. I have never PM'ed you before. Ever. Nor has anyone I know, but then again I don't know anyone on this message board except for one other Portlander.

 

And I didn't read the bolting diatribe.

---

[pete_a]

By the way,

 

I spoke with the climbing ranger for St.Helens today...and although he said he could understand why I thought there was a bit of a double standard concerning 'bilers and climbers, he said those are the rules and if you are caught without your little $15 permit (or a snowmobile) you get fined $100.

He said the only thing one can really do to help change the situation is write to the St.Helens Monument manager explaining your view.