Forest Service Pass - Consequences of Not Having One?

[nolanr]

I used to figure, "Why not just pay, it's only $30." But the more I learn about it, the less I like it. Very little of what you pay goes to anything useful locally. Most of it goes into a general fund, I believe, or like someone else said, gets eaten up paying someone to write tickets who they wouldn't have to pay if they didn't require trail passes. I haven't decided if I'm going to practice civil disobedience this year. If I had the balls to put my money where my mouth was I definitely wouldn't pay. It's definitely double taxation. And "pay for play" seems like a dangerous trend that could easily escalate and increase in $$$. The FS, etc. should get money from Congressional funding (re: our taxes we pay), not fee use stuff. Sorry, getting off topic. I haven't gotten a ticket thus far.

[Gordonb]

We go one when were were up at 8 mile lake that we didn't pay. We got a nasty note about 6 months later saying they would issue a ticket if it wasn't paid soon. We paid instead of fighting.

[oldclimber]

The fish and wildlife vehicle sticker requried at Vantage,etc. comes at no extra cost when you buy a state fishing license. Think about taking up fishing, particularly fly fishing, on days you're not climbing. Some of the best trout lakes in the state are not too far from Vantage. Makes a killer mini road trip.

[beefcider]

they (USFS) got my money once for the permit and I've been using the same datached, wallet sized card on my dashboard ever since. the expiration date is in the other side and until they change the card type, I'll probably avoid a ticket.

 

yeah, stick it to the man!

 

User fees suck, bad admin of the collected fees suck more. Too many localities are robbing people of "user fees" to justify their being on land they alreasy paid taxes to be on.

 

wait, that's not what this thread is about. I apologize. In the mean time, I'll pay if I get caught.

[payaso]

It sounds like meaningful enforcement is pretty inconsistent. An idea could be to create a fund (whether through an organization like the Access Fund, or something new) that would provide legal assistance to resisters of the pass system. I would gladly give them $30 for this service. Kind of like AAA for those who actually get into deep doodoo over this. It sounds like a low percentage actually would ever end up in court. The fund could be used to provide assistance and encouragement to those individuals that do end up in court. This idea would pack more punch if it was sponsored by a large organization such as the Sierra Club. Probably unlikely however since they have to worry about their middle class revenue support.

[chucK]

Anybody know whether the ACLU has been contacted or has a stance about this stuff?

[Trillium]

Something I found werkt fer me:

 

If you volunteer with the WTA on specific days/projects, you receive a free day pass, that states you're a volunteer doing work in the area. Two of those passes and you can trade them in for a freebie annual pass. Now, I'm too lazy to go through the process and actually trade them in, but I throw the same volunteer day pass on my dash, and have yet to have a problem.

[payaso]

You could remove your license plates and cover your vin # in the windshield.

[gschryer2]

I have received 2 tickets from Vantage F&W (Actually from the district court).

Like a traffic ticket you can accept the ticket but contest it. Its even nicer that you can use a written "contestment" rather than having to drive over the pass to George.

 

The written dispute allows you to write all those fine words of non-compliance and protest... thus registering your non-fee-demo vote.

 

The result: The first ticket was reduced significantly. The second ticket was not reduced... they seemed to have noticed my previous disobedience. I paid of course. In the end, you pay much more than the initial parking permit would have cost and unfortunately the proceeds probably don't support the advertised intentions of the original permit fee. This is potentially even more frustrating.

 

As for the forest service pay-to-play... I like the WTA trail work credit method of obtaining your annual pass.

[gschryer2]

PS... I don't feel too put out by paying the full fine for my second Vantage ticket.

 

That day I scored a nice camalot for booty and climbed with a hottie all day.

 

G

[erik]

fish and wildlife tickets isssued at vantage and the tieton are state of washington issues...

 

the nw deforrest pass is a federal issue...

 

two seperate things...i keep reading here like oyu all think they are the same.....they are not....

 

fuck them both......

 

ill pay for vantage when there is a toilet and some actually washington state funded projects there....a gavel lot which has been there for years, does not seem like a very much of an improvment over the original gravel lot.....

 

ill pay for the use of deforrest service land, when they pry the money from my dead hand...

 

get it straight yo's!!!!!!!

[erik]

also the wta thing is another way the deforrest service manipulates you into beliving that you make a difference. so we will let you have a free pass, and by the way every issued nw trail pass counts as a yes vote wheter you paid for it or not........

[Country_Jake]

quote:

---

THere is a big difference between the USFS tickets and the Fish and wildlife tickets. Dont pay the USFS ones they cant do shit. The fish and wildlife will send you a ticket from the local sherrifs office. Those you should pay.

---

Good Call Alasdair..... Forrest service is just what it sounds like, a service, they try to raise money by issuing tickets with no athourity to colect on them... The Fish and Game dept. actually is run by warrdens who are certifyed law inforcement officers, how ever F&W can enforce FS laws if they catch you.... Not to mention Parking tickets given out by the FS get shiped the the county sheriffs dept. .... or at least in Oregon any ways... I got a ticket Parked at a trail head from the FS... and them after no doing any thing about it, got a letter from the county judge... called him up and explained the pass was on the dash and the FS didn't see it, All charges droped... but mostly all other tickets since then, have been non fined warnings, do they actually fine you any more????

[Snowgeek]

I saw a novel way of dealing with this nonsense last year. Someone had a letter to the authorities on the inside of their windshield, basically reading them the riot act for the whole program. Lots of stuff like "shame on you" etc. A fun trailhead read. Fee demo? I "demo" my opposition by not paying and they can go pound sand.

[mattp]

I support anybody who wants to protest the Fee Demo program. Throw out your tickets, go argue your case in court, and write your congressman. However, just try to remember that we do not need to fight a war with every individual district office or ranger. Our battle is with the industry groups and politicians who want to do things that we don't approve of, not with the poor schmuck who gets stuck cruising the parking lot (officer unfriendly over in Leavenworth excepted -- it seems he may in fact have a personal issue with climbers). In the Mount Baker Snoqualmie National Forest, I've talked with line staff who think the fee demo program is bullshit, and we don't need to antagonize these people by being rude to them.

 

Being the naive sap that I am, I'll disagree with Erik on the WTA issue. Although you may have complaints about what that organization does or doesn't do, and you may believe that trail maintenance should not have to be done by volunteers, the WTA projects over the last two years have markedly improved the trail to Three O'Clock Rock in Darrington over the last two years and I believe that, in a broader sense, climber participation in that effort, and the support and involvement of the Access Fund and the North Face on the issue of climber access in general, have gained the attention of the Darrington Ranger District so that they are now talking with us about how to preserve and maintain some roads that, a few years ago, they were going to gate. Yes Erik, the WTA program may in part serve as a diversion that occupies "do-gooders" who would otherwise be organizing against Fee Demo, but the trails do need work and I think anybody who wants to protest Fee Demo will only gain credibility and good will with the Forest Service and with other recreational users if they are willing to pitch in and help.

[glen]

Here's an easy way to do something. Someone print the linked petition and offer it to be signed and mailed at the next pub club (preferably without beer stains).

 

Just a thought.

 

http://www.freeourparks.org/action/petition.cfm

 

maybe post a copy of arguments against the Fucked Demo Program at your favorite trailhead to edumicate the hordes of yuppies. If anything it would be fun to see how many would actually read it.