Craftmatic Posted April 4, 2002 Posted April 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by jules: Well, I have to admit that I do find it quite entertaining most of the time. Haiku away...... Haiku is for those that have not mastered the high art of the limerick. I depict my REI experience as such: REI's climbing associate was not working.(I suspected he was on c-c.com and was lurking.)I tried to interrupt him real quick,Gave up - said "Ah, you guys never know dick!"He replied, "Oh yeah, then what do I spend my days jerking?" Fully adjustable,
Norm Posted April 4, 2002 Posted April 4, 2002 Just for grins walk into REI and ask for an avalanche probe. See how many different departments you visit; see how many different people you talk to. I tried to buy a new probe with a gift certificate a few years ago and finally gave up after what seemed like an hour of being lead around the store by people who had no idea what I was talking about. If you friend is serious about making REI climbing department or any other part of the store useful have him take a roadtrip up to Vancouver and check out MEC.
jules Posted April 4, 2002 Author Posted April 4, 2002 Originally posted by Norm:"finally gave up after what seemed like an hour of being lead around the store by people who had no idea what I was talking about."Sad as that is, I'm lol.
jules Posted April 4, 2002 Author Posted April 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by lizard brain: They refused to sell it to me until I told them what I wanted it for. They said they had to verify that I was buying it for "appropriate" use. [ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: lizard brain ] Doesn't even matter what it was you were looking to buy.... that's just WRONG. Excuse me what?! "Refused to sell it"?! Whoa... whoa.... I'm feeling dizzy......
jules Posted April 4, 2002 Author Posted April 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Al Pine: I have a question for you Jules. Perhaps you know nothing of this, but I have heard that REI has used its buying power to force gear manufacturers to not allow their gear to be sold at discount.Is there any truth in this? If so there must be some justification. What is it? If it is the truth it certainly goes against the original mission of the COOP. Hey, Al,there is no truth to that. There is truth in that MANY manufacturers/vendors will not allow REI to even carry their gear due to our co-op (read, "discounting") basis for doing business. This might also respond to some of the other comments about the company moving away from the co-op structure. It's less REI's choice, more about manufacturer's saying "no go, you are discounters." This applies to several areas of our business, not just climbing.
jules Posted April 4, 2002 Author Posted April 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by lizard brain: I asked for 68 inches of webbing. She didn't know how to figure out what that is in feet and inches. She had to get help. Ohmigod, I feel so sad right now.
allison Posted April 4, 2002 Posted April 4, 2002 Dear Jules, What about when I went into the downtown Seattle REI and asked (in the Map Dept) for a map of the entire Alpine Lakes Wilderness, and she said, "I don't know that area, is that is Washington?" Come on, cry me a river!!
Doug Posted April 4, 2002 Posted April 4, 2002 Jules, You're not just doing this for attention, are you? I would love to see REI get serious about being a respected leader in climbing gear. As hard as it may be to accomplish, REI needs to a) hire knowledgeable people to work in all departments. This phenomena is not unique to REI. Been to Home Depot or Lowes's lately?b) Do a better job stocking inventory in every department. The last 3 times I've been to the flagship store, I've walked out empty handed because they didn't have the simple things I came to buy (fuel cannister, LED bulb for my petzl zoom, etc.c) Do a better job of weeding out the weenies. A year or so ago, I went to the service counter and the person working there seemed to be very put off by having to interrupt a personal phone call to ask if I needed help. If REI's looking for a place to solicit opinion's, I think they've come t the right place!
Doug Posted April 4, 2002 Posted April 4, 2002 Jules, You're not just doing this for attention, are you? I would love to see REI get serious about being a respected leader in climbing gear. As hard as it may be to accomplish, REI needs to a) hire knowledgeable people to work in all departments. This phenomena is not unique to REI. Been to Home Depot or Lowes's lately?b) Do a better job stocking inventory in every department. The last 3 times I've been to the flagship store, I've walked out empty handed because they didn't have the simple things I came to buy (fuel cannister, LED bulb for my petzl zoom, etc.c) Do a better job of weeding out the weenies. A year or so ago, I went to the service counter and the person working there seemed to be very put off by having to interrupt a personal phone call to ask if I needed help. If REI's looking for a place to solicit opinion's, I think they've come t the right place!
jon Posted April 4, 2002 Posted April 4, 2002 What's with people who are constantly being bashed on coming out asking for feedback. First the mounties now REI? Jules I think it is good that you guys are taking a look at this, but don't you guys pay lots of money for market feetback? I go to REI once in a while, mainly just to look at chicks. You guys are doing pretty good in that respect, keep up the good work. I think REI is at a key turning point. It's obvious to me that they are only interested in selling clothes, probably because it is more profitable. The other stuff is just there as a loss leader, to lure your ass in there so you end up buying a fleece or something. I wouldn't be the least surprised if you upper management aren't talking about just selling clothes. What I guess is now a company has to decide whether it is going to stay in the specialty business or just get out and become an Eddie Bauer. The climbing department isn't the only department really lacking, it is all of them. I'm not saying there isn't some knowledgable and nice people working there but 9 times out of 10 I'm stuck talking to someone who shouldn't be working in climbing or cycling or whatever. REI needs to consider it's overly extravagent stores which must cost a fortune to build and maintain. The more than generous return policy needs to be revised, like that asshole who was posted about returning 10 year old OR overmitts, I mean give me a break. By cutting these unnecessary costs you can then afford to pay the salespeople REAL salaries. Put proffessional people in these sales positions and buying positions, I'm not talking marketing degrees I'm talking serious climbers, competetive skiiers and cyclists, people who know the outdoors. If you got these kinds of people I would buy some stuff there just so I could talk these people even if the selection did suck. Maybe a bunch of should run for the board of trustees or whatever and return the company to what it was created for in the first place.
none_dup1 Posted April 4, 2002 Posted April 4, 2002 Good Grief, people-- are there any adults out there? First of all, study up on legal definitions of CO-OPs. They are for profit! Next: in my years of shopping at REI, I remember buying a Chounard Ice Hammer for $40, two Chounard ice screws (brand new) for 3 cents (!!!) apeice, these way rad stretchy fanny packs for 3 cents (!!!) apeice.. the list goes on forever. Maybe attitude blinds one to possilbilities...Here's a news flash: you can order almost any item of climbing gear you want, catalogue, special order, whatever, and get it at a dividend, at REI. Screw the floor stock- you know what you want! Then, if not 100% satisfied, it is returnable. I once returned two Camalots that had split sleeves right behind the swages there, and another 1 that had bad action when new-- try that at some other retailers.I mean, it's not all sunshine and light, but hoot, man-- what are ya' after?And, yes, I have seen Beckey at REI. And Dan Davis, and Royal Robbins, and Pete Schoenig, and Alex Lowe, and Greg Childs, and Ed Viesters, and Don Brooks, and Jim Wickwire, and Lou Whittaker, and Mark Twight, and..... [ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: none ]
Alpine_Tom Posted April 4, 2002 Posted April 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by specialed: I think its unrealistic to expect outdoor retail salespeople to know everything about every product and have experience with it. Why would you rely on someone who is getting paid to sell you something for unbiased advice on a product anyway? I worked retail for about five years (computer sales, back in the old days, when you HAD to know what you were talking about.) I am pretty torn about buying stuff on the Internet (or mail order) vs. locally, because I feel, rightly or wrongly, that you "need" to keep local retailers in business.Bricks-and-mortar retailers are always going to have higher costs, so the only way for them to compete is by providing useful information.If I'm willing to do the research and figure out what the right crampon is for my particular need, then why should I pay the 20% extra for the privledge of picking it up in person? I bought a helmet from the REI Flagship store a couple of weeks ago, with my dividend. I'd pretty much decided that I should go with the Petzl Ecrin Roc, based on feedback from here, but I asked the sales guy, because it was a quiet day and he'd asked me if I needed any help, and it was as though I'd asked him which color fleece to buy. "Well, they're all good. It just depends on what you want."Great, thanks. (I forgot to ask about helmet decals, tho -- did I screw up? Are the BD decals compatible?)So, I got the Ecrin Roc, because I had the dividend check (and the 10% off), even though I could have saved $15 or so going on the Internet.Moral: if I know the model/size/style I need, I'll order it on the Internet; if I don't, I'll go to PMS. As others on this thread have observed, REI is heading down the trail Eddie Bauer blazed. Look for the new REI home store, opening soon near you.It wouldn't bother me a bit if the chinos and loafers and baby backpacks subsidized the climbing gear, but it seems just the oposite.
payaso Posted April 4, 2002 Posted April 4, 2002 I've found REI help to be hit or miss with about 90% in the miss range. But I really don't expect to get too much serious advice at a place that size in the first place. THE BIGGEST FLAW WITH REI IS NOT STOCKING WHAT YOU ADVERTISE!!!!!!!! I've been in there looking for bicycle tires in November and told that "it's not bike season." What the holy fuck is "bike season?" Same with climbing. Even their clothing selection is typically limited to (at least in mens) xs or xxl! What the fuck! How many men that would call themselves men wear xs? Order more of what people buy, especially since you're the ones paying the slaves in the Dominican Republic to make the shit. Earlier this year I called during a sale to see if you had MSR snowshoes in the store (on sale for $99) and they said they'll be in tomorrow. I called the next day 3 minutes after they opened and was told that they had just sold out! How many pairs did you have in, 3? This is fucking inexcusable. I felt totally ripped off. A store the size of REI should carry climbing gear YEAR-ROUND, and snowshoes are used enough around her to carry them YEAR-ROUND as well! This is why I never feel the slightest bit of guilt when I take old shit back. Does anyone have any experience with returning climbing ropes? That would be the most stylish way to retire a rope that I can think of........
Richard_Pumpington Posted April 4, 2002 Posted April 4, 2002 One more point to add: when every other store in town will give you a 10% discount UPFRONT, to match REI's, what good does it do to be a "member"; so you can vote on the next director who doesn't climb, or even backpack? REI hasn't been a true co-op for 10 years or more.
hollyclimber Posted April 4, 2002 Posted April 4, 2002 Hey Jules!I didn't have time to read everything that has been written, but I agree with pretty much everything I have read. My additional comment is that I am surprised (or was...now I expect it) that I can't get basically everything on REI.com. For example, you can't get the McNamara supertopo book. It seems like to me that irrespective of the selection in the store, the website should offer almost every product that people buy. I expected REI.com to be like Amazon. I don't really like shopping there, but I try to get something from them when I don't have time to go and get it myself. They pretty much never have what I want. Also, REI should have more big wall gear. They basically have none right now. What I think is funny is pretty much everytime I go to REI to buy something, they send me to feathered friends. Whether it be an Avocet altimeter watch when mine got ripped off last year or cord or webbing. And it is sad when a store like that runs out of any type of cord or webbing. You would think they know their own usage. Every year after the mountaineers basic course starts they are bone dry. hgb [ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: hollyclimber ]
AJ Posted April 4, 2002 Posted April 4, 2002 Jules, Tell Tad good luck, but I doubt he will be able to change much more than a couple product selections. The store managers will have to take care of the personnel issues. - A.J.
erik Posted April 4, 2002 Posted April 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by chucK: Here's my pet peeve with the selection in the climbing deptartment. It is a minor peeve but is probably the only criticism I have that is constructive (i.e. one that could be easily fixed). Whenever I go in there to get a supply of nylon webbing. They have one (if that) spool of earthtone/camoflauge webbing, and multiple spools of purple, red, and neon yellow webbing. Couldn't it be done the other way? Do the crags a favor. Get multiple spools of green, brown, black, or gray stuff and KEEP IT IN STOCK. man, chucK has got that one figured out.....!!!!! but chucK after your rope team has desenced into the black gaping crevasse of ignorance, how will the rescue team find you if you are camofluaged????
jules Posted April 4, 2002 Author Posted April 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: Dear Jules,What about when I went into the downtown Seattle REI and asked (in the Map Dept) for a map of the entire Alpine Lakes Wilderness, and she said, "I don't know that area, is that is Washington?" Come on, cry me a river!! WAAAHHHHHHH!!!! [ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: jules ]
Dru Posted April 4, 2002 Posted April 4, 2002 You know, at MEC the staff passes knowledge tests on the gear they sell and then gets raises... or they used to... also to whoever said REI is a co op and its business is profit, MEC is a non-profit co-op. the employees make good wages, they give alot to the environmental and access groups and they dont pay tax. the big deal was, cause they are non profit the member shares are their only source of capital so they started small and it took them like 10 years of a small core of people selflessly volunteering to make it reach the point where it hit critical mass. now look at it!
hikerwa Posted April 4, 2002 Posted April 4, 2002 I think a few years back, I got a seperate catalogue that was climbing only. It had all the gear and looked like the Mountain Gear catalogue. That was cool, they offered discounts on bulk, and a dividend. Does REI still have a more technical catalogue? I still buy most of my gear in spokane at Mountain Gear, but for larger purchases where the 10% actually is substantial, I will buy something at REI. As a side note, my buddy went into REI after xmas with his dividend, and a couple of Gift cards to buy a new Marmot Alpinist jacket and wanted to use his dividend and the 10% off, the jacket was not in stock, so the customer service (haha) person told him to special order it would cost him $25, in case he did not want it when it came in, and he would not recieve the 10% dividend on a special order. that sucked. He ended up cashing out the divident and certs and buying the jacket at Marmot. oh well. Jules, thanks for posting. I hope REI will get some of this feed back and act on it. Sean
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